Stuart wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:09 pm
I think you dodged the main question, which is explain what you mean by a factory. Is there a directive going on? To me that seems rather conspiratorial, so I'm disinclined to accept such speculation.
That is the conceptual problem I see.
neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:25 pm
You used the word "factory" but I prefer the word "scribal schools" which one finds often enough in the literature. I don't know where anything conspiratorial enters the question. We do know that there were scribal debates relating to the writings in the second temple era and afterwards.
With respect to the OT writings we see at some point a collation of different ideas within a single writing so that contradictions exist side by side (e.g. creation in Genesis 1 and 2). Leaving motives and intentions aside, do we not see some indications of a comparable process with NT writings -- though in the case of the gospels we find contradictory accounts accepted into a single canon.
(You said I was studying the letters as finished wholes -- but my illustrations have only ever addressed subsections. I would have thought that if a section is cogently explained, and with extensive detail, as originating as a coherent literary unit then it is more likely than not to have been composed originally as such a unit. I would have thought such a study to be useful when undertaking a quest to see what line was original, what secondary, etc.)
There are other options to consider besides "scribal schools".
In antiquity there were exercises in rhetoric and, supposedly, even schools in rhetoric -
...the secondary school, or school of grammar, centered on readings from classical authors as elucidated by explanations from all areas of knowledge. The school of rhetoric gave students a practical mastery of the art of the word. The beginning program of studies in schools of rhetoric consisted of progymnasmata, which were preliminary exercises in the composition of fables, narratives, chrias, maxims, refutations and confirmations of stories, amplifications, and reproofs. The basic course included declamationes, speeches on invented topics, in the form of exhortations (suasoriae
) or addresses in fictitious legal cases (controversiae
). The school of rhetoric was intended to prepare its pupils primarily for a political career—which was impossible without the skill of oratory—but as time passed, the school’s cultivation of verbal art became a goal in itself; this drew sharp criticism from practical orators, including Cicero, Quintilian, and Tacitus.
The rhetorical school exerted a great influence on late classical literature.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary ... +School+of
Moreover, students in more general schools in higher echelons of Greco-Roman society progressed through stages -
Main article: Grammarian (Greco-Roman world)
At between nine and twelve years of age, boys from affluent families would leave their 'litterator' behind and take up study with a Grammaticus, who honed his students' writing and speaking skills, versed them in the art of poetic analysis, and taught them Greek if they did not yet know it. Poetry analysis continued to use the same poems and poets the students were exposed to in Ludus, such as Phoenissae by Euripides. By this point, lower-class boys would already be working as apprentices, and girls—rich or poor—would be focused on making themselves attractive brides and, subsequently, capable mothers.
Daily activities included lectures by the Grammaticus (narratio
), expressive reading of poetry (Lectio) and the analysis of poetry (partition). The curriculum was thoroughly bilingual, as students were expected to both read and speak in Greek as well as in Latin. Assessment of a student's performance was done on-the-spot and on-the-fly according to standards set by his particular Grammaticus, as no source on Roman education ever mentions work taken away to be graded. Instead, pupils would complete an exercise, display their results, and be corrected or congratulated as needed by the Grammaticus, who revelled in his self-perception as a "guardian of language". ....
... the freedman Marcus Verrius Flaccus...
gained imperial patronage [being hired by Augustus] and a widespread tutelage due to his novel practice of pitting students of similar age and ability against each other and rewarding the winner with a prize, usually an old book of some rarity.
The rhetor was the final stage in Roman education. Very few boys went on to study rhetoric ...
The orator, or student of rhetoric, was important in Roman society because of the constant political strife that occurred throughout Roman history. Young men who studied under a rhetor would not only focus on public speaking. These students also learned other subjects such as geography, music, philosophy, literature, mythology, and geometry. These well-rounded studies gave Roman orators a more diverse education and helped prepare them for future debates ...
Later in Roman history, the practice of declamation became focused more on the art of delivery as opposed to training to speak on important issues in the courts. Tacitus pointed out that during his day (the second half of the 1st century AD), students had begun to...
focus more of their training on the art of storytelling.
A final level of education was philosophical study. To study philosophy, a student would have to go to a center of philosophy where philosophers taught, usually abroad in Greece ... Romans regarded philosophical education as distinctly Greek ...
Such education included the use of progymnasmata
- a series of preliminary rhetorical exercises -
eg. the sequential progymnasmata of Aphthonius -
- Fable (mythos)
- Narrative (diēgēma)
- Anecdote (chreia)
- Maxim (gnōmē)
- Refutation (anaskeuē)
- Confirmation (kataskeuē)
- Commonplace (koinos topos)
- Encomium (enkōmion)
- Invective (psogos)
- Comparison (synkrisis)
- Personification (ēthopoeia)
- Description (ekphrasis)
- Introduction to law (nomou eisphora)