DCHindley wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:47 pm
With regard to Photius, Bibliotheca, 232, I noticed a few years ago that the J. H. Freese translation of René Henry's French translation in Les Belles Lettres, as commissioned by Roger Pearse,
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/photi ... otheca.htm , has a missing section:
.... The subjects on which this double and contradictory demonstration is made are the following.
[the missing text]
[That] First of all the just will be resurrected
and with them all those alive
and they will live a good life for a thousand years,
eating and drinking,
procreating,
and that it is after this time that there will be the universal resurrection.
...
I am able to match all of the rest of the English translation of the French translation to the Greek of Photius, except for this snippet.
Ὅτι τὸ ἰδίωμα καὶ ὁ χαρακτὴρ καὶ ἡ μορφὴ ὑπό στασίς ἐστιν,
ἀλλ' οὐχὶ συμπλοκὴ τῆς οὐσίας καὶ τοῦ ἰδιώματος,
οὐδὲ τὸ αὐθυπόστατον.
Τοῦτο μὲν αἱ χρήσεις κατασκευάζουσι πρότερον,
εἶτα πάλιν ὕστερον τὸ ἐναντίον ἕτεραι,
τουτέστι ὅτι τὸ ἰδίωμα καὶ ἡ μορφὴ καὶ ὁ χαρακτὴρ οὐκ ἔστιν ὑπόστασις ἀλλὰ τῆς ὑποστάσεως χαρακτήρ.
Καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων κεφαλαίων,
ἵνα μὴ τὰ αὐτὰ καθ' ἕκαστον λέγειν συναναγκασθείημεν,
τὴν ἀντίθεσιν αἱ διάφοροι χρήσεις ἀπολαμβάνουσαι δοκοῦσιν ἑκατέρωθεν συνιστᾶν τὸ προτεινόμενον.
Would one of our more educated forum members be willing to translate this Greek directly into English?
I have broken down the Greek into what I think are sense units. Maybe it was excluded as some sort of comment by Photius, although I would expect something in Roger's commissioned translation to indicate an interruption, but nothing is to be seen.
Thanks! DCH
You have broken down some words that I have reconnected again via a dash: a word-for-word literal translation this is
Ὅτι τὸ ἰδίωμα καὶ ὁ χαρακτὴρ καὶ ἡ μορφὴ ὑπό-στασίς ἐστιν,
That the peculiarity and the mark-engraved and the form foundation is,
ἀλλ' οὐχὶ συμπλοκὴ τῆς οὐσίας καὶ τοῦ ἰδιώματος,
but not intertwining of-the property and of-the peculiarity,
οὐδὲ τὸ αὐθυπόστατον (αὖθι ὑποστατός).
nor the there to-be-endured(?).
Τοῦτο μὲν αἱ χρήσεις κατασκευάζουσι πρότερον,
This however the(pl) employments built earlier,
εἶτα πάλιν ὕστερον τὸ ἐναντίον ἕτεραι,
then again afterward the before others,
τουτέστι ὅτι τὸ ἰδίωμα καὶ ἡ μορφὴ καὶ ὁ χαρακτὴρ οὐκ ἔστιν ὑπόστασις ἀλλὰ τῆς ὑποστάσεως χαρακτήρ.
Thence (this-is) that the peculiarity and the form and the mark-engraved not is foundation but of-the foundation mark-engraved.
Καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων κεφαλαίων,
And upon of-the others of-the-heads
ἵνα μὴ τὰ αὐτὰ καθ' ἕκαστον λέγειν συναναγκασθείημεν,
so-that not the(pl) same(-things) according-to every saying we-compress(?)
τὴν ἀντίθεσιν αἱ διάφοροι χρήσεις ἀπολαμβάνουσαι δοκοῦσιν ἑκατέρωθεν συνιστᾶν τὸ προτεινόμενον.
the opposition the(pl) different employments received they-esteem on-each-side commend the put-before
With a bit of guesswork, and Berean Interlinear, you can come all the way really. I have had 4 years of Greek but I doubt that I have used much of that pool of knowledge this time. If the Interlinear fails you, even when you try a shorter word or remove the accents, then try Perseus TUFTS:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0057 (LSJ)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0058 (Middle Liddell)
The LSJ is more NT-oriented, whereas Middle Liddell contains the more pure translations
Abusing the Berean Interlinear also leads one to see that Hebrews 1:3 is very interesting in this regard...
Now, putting it all together:
That the peculiarity and the mark-engraved (image) and the form foundation is,
but not intertwining of-the property and of-the peculiarity,
nor the there to-be-endured(?).
FINISH LATER DORRY
This however the(pl) employments built earlier,
εἶτα πάλιν ὕστερον τὸ ἐναντίον ἕτεραι,
then again afterward the before others,
τουτέστι ὅτι τὸ ἰδίωμα καὶ ἡ μορφὴ καὶ ὁ χαρακτὴρ οὐκ ἔστιν ὑπόστασις ἀλλὰ τῆς ὑποστάσεως χαρακτήρ.
Thence (this-is) that the peculiarity and the form and the mark-engraved not is foundation but of-the foundation mark-engraved.
Καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων κεφαλαίων,
And upon of-the others of-the-heads
ἵνα μὴ τὰ αὐτὰ καθ' ἕκαστον λέγειν συναναγκασθείημεν,
so-that not the(pl) same(-things) according-to every saying we-compress(?)
τὴν ἀντίθεσιν αἱ διάφοροι χρήσεις ἀπολαμβάνουσαι δοκοῦσιν ἑκατέρωθεν συνιστᾶν τὸ προτεινόμενον.
the opposition the(pl) different employments received they-esteem on-each-side commend the put-before