Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Investigator wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:45 am Psuedo-Scholars (sic) who accept your corrupt critical TR text begin with pseudo-CT-quackery :thumbup: presuppositions, limiting the value of your verse referencing. :oops:
This shows that you are a dishonest textual broker.

Plus your tepid attempt at turnabout argumentation shows that you can not really deal with the fundamental issues.

=================

As to the verse numbers, I quoted my source, and then passed on to them that it would be better to not change the Conti numbering without explanation. So I was scrupulously honest, and you are a false accuser. No surprise there.

You go that route because the invisible allegory argument is absurd.

A total waste of time, a scholastic embarrassment.

You would not have changed the numbering of your own accord 1. if you weren't called out on the misrepresentation publicly, and 2. because you have just tacitly admitted you didn't research Conti's book yourself (admitting what we knew all along that you really are a pseudo-TC-quackery fraudster) but relied on, what YOU ALSO tacitly/actually admit is, faulty and dishonest secondary research, and 3. you ARE COMPLICIT because you were personally involved in the publishing and researching of "The Witness of God is Greater" book (your name is in the credits). Meaning you cannot plead ignorance nor innocence!
Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athan

Post by Steven Avery »

All silly stuff, as I never claimed to be the source for the Conti text, the reference was new to me until recently. When the commentary numbering issue was pointed out, I took the proper action. All a big yawn. In fact many references were new to me, including Isaac the Jew, also before Priscillian, thus also updating virtually all the existing scholarship.

The Witness of God is Greater book had years of research involving various individuals before I got involved, tweaking, correcting and adding. There is a list of many contributors at the front of the book. Michael Maynard had been the spur for my involvement with the heavenly witnesses. On Witness my contributions are in the last year (traveling, so I am not being precise to the month.)

You are just looking for a diversion from the simple fact that the invisible allegory claim is absurd, and Potamius was clearly referencing the heavenly witnesses, as was Cyprian in the earlier century. You would do well to give up contending the basic point. (You could still claim non-authenticity, although the attempt becomes that much weaker.)

It is humorous watching the whining on the most trivial point. Simply because the Potamius references buries even more deeply any claim that the heavenly witnesses was an interpolation during the Arian controversies.

The contras are in a pickle, because their interpolation theories are ultra-weak, so instead we get the weak diversionary posting of Investigator and the vulgarities of Bill Brown. Bart Ehrman was a little better, no silly attacks, yet similarly evasive.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Your (self admittedly) ill informed opinion on the four references in Potamius, each attesting to authentic 1 John 5:8 "et tres unum sunt" is being quietly taken to pieces stitch by stitch.

What are Potamius' "most hidden meanings" about Scripture (according to Potamius) Steven?

Oh, wait, nobody should ask you that question because 1. you don't have Conti's translation, and 2. you (self admittedly) have never read it (except for four snippets) making it impossible to get a truly informed opinion about Potamius from you!
Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

In the four sections at issue the meaning are simple and clear,

The three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are one.

As Potamius saw in his Bible in the heavenly witnesses verse.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:22 am In the four sections at issue the meaning are simple and clear,

The three (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are one.

As Potamius saw in his Bible in the heavenly witnesses verse.
Nope.

There is no allusion, let alone a quotation of the whole of 1 John 5:7. There is no allusion, let alone a quotation of the first half of 1 John 5:7. There is no allusion, let alone a quotation of the middle part of 1 John 5:7. There is only a quotation of the last part of genuine 1 John 5:8 in all four snippets from Potamius.

The last snippet, Chapter 19 of "Letter on the Substance of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", is in the direct context of two allegorical references :lol: to Mark 9:4 and Matthew 18:16 without any clear explanation :o of the allegory :eek: of the "three tents" :thumbup: which he quotes from Mark 9:4, and by Potamius immediately referencing Matthew 18:16 "Every verbal statement is to be established upon the basis of two and three witnesses" ;) makes your claim that he had the "there are three in heaven who give witness" corruption in his Bible before him, look absolutely absurd. :scratch:

If Potamius felt no need to explain the allegory of the "three tents" (literally one word after quoting "et tres unum sunt") then Potamius obviously saw no need to explain "and three are one" from the authentic text of 1 John 5:8.

Potamius told us that he had the habbit of looking for "secret" interpretations, and "the most hidden meanings" in Scripture in the very first sentence of the same Letter :thumbup:
Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

You think three tents represent spirit, water and blood?

Where does Potamius write of the earthly witnesses?
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

"Represent" = tacit admission that "et tres unum sunt" IS in a direct allegorical context!
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:59 am
You think three tents represent spirit, water and blood?

Where does Potamius write of the earthly witnesses?

"Represent" is a tacit admission that "et tres unum sunt" (chapter 19) IS for a fact in a direct allegorical context!
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:59 am
You think three tents represent spirit, water and blood?

Where does Potamius write of the earthly witnesses?

You admit the "three tents" represent something because you've been aware of this fact for some time now.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Potamius does not explain item by item, or person by person who or what the "three tents" represent.

Yet Potamius says who said the words, Peter, and quotes a small snippet of the verse, Mark 9:4, (in the exact same manner as he points to "John says", and likewise quotes a tiny snippet "et tres unum sunt" from 1 John 5:8 just one word before) so WHY does Potamius not explain who or what the allegory represents in minute detail the way you demand every ancient writer should, Steven?
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