Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

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Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

This would be random mind-reading of no import.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Potamius was referring, not to explainable doctrine concerning the Trinity and the substance, but to the figurative meaning that lyes hidden beneath the literal texts - because he says so! :eek:
Last edited by Investigator on Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:15 am This would be random mind-reading of no import.

You've been doing this for decades, what's stopping you now?

Why would Potamius quote Matthew 18:16 in favor over or instead of quoting the first part of 1 John 5:7 in an "Epistle about" and on the theme of: "the Substance of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? :confusedsmiley:

Theologically speaking, the beginning of 1 John 5:7 (corrupted Latin texts) is far more direct and suited to the theme. Secondly, he's just quoted "et tres unum sunt" which you claim is from the very same corrupted text. So why use a theologically less suited text (Matthew 18:16) in favor of (and over) one that's both hypothetically right in front of him and far more suited to the theological theme?

This circumstance in the text doesn't suit your claim - in fact the opposite! This circumstance and context and choice of Scripture indicates far more strongly that Potamius didn't have a corrupted Latin version in front of him at all! And if he didn't have it there (in this last of all the references), then he didn't have it when writing the other references as well!
Last edited by Investigator on Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:51 am, edited 8 times in total.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

It would seem that not only is Potamius' choice of "three tents" for Moses, Elijah, Jesus, a poor choice theologically (from a literal text meaning point of view), but also it appears that the choice of Mark 9:5 (9:4 Latin versions) by Potamius might have been a poor choice grammatically if he was trying to get it to agree (i.e. being in grammatical concord) with 1 John 5:7, because the words for both "three" and "tents" and "one" (as in "one for you" speaking to Jesus) are in the feminine gender in the Greek (the language Mark the Gospel writer originally wrote in), which, I'm sure you would agree Steven, the feminine gender is totally unsuited to the Trinity.

Mark 9:5
καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Πέτρος λέγει τῷ Ἰησοῦ Ῥαββεί, καλόν ἐστιν ἡμᾶς ὧδε εἶναι, καὶ ποιήσωμεν τρεῖς [= adjective, accusative, feminine, plural] σκηνάς [= noun, accusative, feminine, plural], σοὶ μίαν [= adjective, accusative, feminine, singular] καὶ Μωυσεῖ μίαν καὶ Ἠλείᾳ μίαν.

But, considering Potamius was into Mary worship, :notworthy: he doesn't appear to be bothered by this possible grammatical solecism.

Note how he ends his letter to Athanasius (of all people) with a doxology addressed to Mary as "the Mother of God" along with the Trinity.

Potamius of Lisbon. "Letter to Athanasius the Bishop of Alexandria on the consubstantiality of the Son of God" in the life and works of Potamius of Lisbon edited and translated by Marco Conti, 1998, p. 140-141.

[Page 141] Latin Text: "Obmutescat heresis aeterno silentio praedamnata, divinis ictibus caesa, baratro tartarisque deposita. Sola semper cum laureis suis virgo puerpera Deo, una nobis columba, fecunditate numerosior, usque ad nubes caeli caput coronatum adtollat. Sit benedicta cum populis, Trinitatis unitate consecrata iustissimis, cuius laude plena est a nunc et in aeterna semper saecula saeculorum. Beatificet Pater et Filius et Spiritus sanctus."

[Page 140] "May the heretical sect be suppressed, after being condemned to eternal silence, smashed by the lightning of God and forsaken in the abyss of hell. May the Virgin alone, Mother of God, raise to the clouds of heaven her head crowned with laurels, she who is our only dove and is superior in fecundity. May she be blessed among the nations who are piously faithful to the sacred unity of the Trinity and fully praise her now and forever, world without end. May the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit make you blessed."
Last edited by Investigator on Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

Investigator wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:44 am
Steven Avery wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:15 am This would be random mind-reading of no import.

You've been doing this for decades, what's stopping you now?
Nonsense.
Steven Avery
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:27 am

Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

Investigator wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:44 am
Theologically speaking, the beginning of 1 John 5:7 (corrupted Latin texts) is far more direct and suited to the theme. Secondly, he's just quoted "et tres unum sunt" which you claim is from the very same corrupted text
You are falsely putting words in my mouth.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Potamius sees hidden meanings in just about everything and lying underneath Scriptures which literal meanings have absolutely nothing to do with the Trinity in both letters which the four references to 1 John 5:8 (Latin versions) are taken from.

Potamius says so directly in the first sentence and paragraph in the Letter on the Substance for example.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Conti says: "[Part 2, Page 34] Potamius opposes this argument by quoting different scriptural passages and by availing himself of very effective images."

What do you think Conti means by the word: "images"?
Steven Avery
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Steven Avery »

Instead of playing 20 questions, why not simply place online any pages you think are relevant.
Investigator
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Re: Potamius of Lisbon references the heavenly witnesses in writing to Athanasius

Post by Investigator »

Steven Avery wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:03 am Instead of playing 20 questions, why not simply place online any pages you think are relevant.

That's the sort of reply I expect from someone who does not know what he's talking about when it comes to Potamius.
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