How Empty Was the Tomb?

[andrewcriddle]

I think I would probably agree that Melito's in the midst of the city is rhetorical and means no more than somewhere within the city limits. I do have difficulty thinking that Melito would have used this phrase if he believed Jesus died outside the walls of Aelia Capitolina.

Andrew Criddle

Andrew,

I'm not clear on what you're assuming about Melito. Are you assuming he visited Aelia Capitolina before he wrote Peri Pascha (or at all), and if so, why?

Could he not have written Peri Pascha based on his knowledge of the gospels?

Best,

Ken

I think it is difficult to explain what Melito says unless he was aware of an extra-canonical tradition that the death of Jesus occurred within the city limits of Aelia Capitolina. Such a tradition presumably derives from Palestine but does not necessarily require that Melito had himself visited Palestine.

Andrew Criddle

Edited to Add
Melito clearly knew John's Gospel and John 19:20 makes clear that Jesus was crucified outside Jerusalem.

[Ken Olson]

I think it is difficult to explain what Melito says unless he was aware of an extra-canonical tradition that the death of Jesus occurred within the city limits of Aelia Capitolina. Such a tradition presumably derives from Palestine but does not necessarily require that Melito had himself visited Palestine.

Andrew Criddle

Edited to Add
Melito clearly knew John's Gospel and John 19:20 makes clear that Jesus was crucified outside Jerusalem.

Andrew,

Have you read Von Wahlde's paper? (Urban C. van Wahlde, “The References to the Time and Place of the Crucifixion in the Peri Pascha of Melito of Sardis,” JTS 60.2 (2009) 556-569.

Best,

Ken

[StephenGoranson]

Von Wahlde's paper includes rhetorical analysis but, unless I missed it, does not mention Eusebius on Melito's travel.

[StephenGoranson]

This reminds me of the differing accounts of what War Secretary Edwin Stanton said right after Abraham Lincoln died. “Now he belongs to the ages” or “Now he belongs to the angels.” Most attestations have “ages.” But these attestations start with Hay, about 25 years later. At that time, historical perspective may have seemed apt. But weary, and religious, Stanton, in the moment, may have had in mind the story of the beggar Lazarus as told in Gospel of Luke 16:22: “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side.” Abraham to Abraham.

[Ken Olson]

Von Wahlde's paper includes rhetorical analysis but, unless I missed it, does not mention Eusebius on Melito's travel.

Stephen,

No, Von Wahlde does not discuss Melito’s travels. He doesn’t need to to make his point.

Here is the pertinent passage from Eusebius Ecclesiastical History in which he quotes Melito on his travels:

12. But in the Extracts made by him the same writer gives at the beginning of the introduction a catalogue of the acknowledged books of the Old Testament, which it is necessary to quote at this point. He writes as follows: 13. Melito to his brother Onesimus, greeting: Since you have often, in your zeal for the word, expressed a wish to have extracts made from the Law and the Prophets concerning the Saviour and concerning our entire faith, and has also desired to have an accurate statement of the ancient book, as regards their number and their order, I have endeavored to perform the task, knowing your zeal for the faith, and your desire to gain information in regard to the word, and knowing that you, in your yearning after God, esteem these things above all else, struggling to attain eternal salvation. 14. Accordingly when I went East and came to the place where these things were preached and done, I learned accurately the books of the Old Testament, and send them to you as written below. Their names are as follows: Of Moses, five books: Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, Deuteronomy; Jesus Nave, Judges, Ruth; of Kings, four books; of Chronicles, two; the Psalms of David, the Proverbs of Solomon, Wisdom also, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Job; of Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah; of the twelve prophets, one book ; Daniel, Ezekiel, Esdras. From which also I have made the extracts, dividing them into six books. Such are the words of Melito. (Eusebius HE 4.27.13-14).

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250104.htm

12] Ἀλλὰ ταῦτα μὲν ἐν τῷ δηλωθέντι τέθειται λόγῳ: ἐν δὲ ταῖς γραφείσαις αὐτῷ Ἐκλογαῖς ὁ αὐτὸς κατὰ τὸ προοίμιον ἀρχόμενος τῶν ὁμολογουμένων τῆς παλαιᾶς διαθήκης γραφῶν ποιεῖται κατάλογον: ὃν καὶ ἀναγκαῖον ἐνταῦθα καταλέξαι, γράφει δὲ οὕτως: ‘Μελίτων [13] Ὀνησίμῳ τῷ ἀδελφῷ χαίρειν. ἐπειδὴ πολλάκις ἠξίωσας, σπουδῇ τῇ πρὸς τὸν λόγον χρώμενος, γενέσθαι σοι ἐκλογὰς ἔκ τε τοῦ νόμου καὶ τῶν προφητῶν περὶ τοῦ σωτῆρος καὶ πάσης τῆς πίστεως ἡμῶν, ἔτι δὲ καὶ μαθεῖν τὴν τῶν παλαιῶν βιβλίων ἐβουλήθης ἀκρίβειαν πόσα τὸν ἀριθμὸν καὶ ὁποῖα τὴν τάξιν εἶεν, ἐσπούδασα τὸ τοιοῦτο πρᾶξαι, ἐπιστάμενός σου τὸ σπουδαῖον περὶ τὴν πίστιν καὶ φιλομαθὲς περὶ τὸν λόγον ὅτι τε μάλιστα πάντων πόθῳ τῷ πρὸς τὸν θεὸν ταῦτα προκρίνεις, περὶ τῆς αἰωνίου σωτηρίας ἀγωνιζόμενος. [14] ἀνελθὼν οὖν εἰς τὴν ἀνατολὴν καὶ ἕως τοῦ τόπου γενόμενος ἔνθα ἐκηρύχθη καὶ ἐπράχθη, καὶ ἀκριβῶς μαθὼν τὰ τῆς παλαιᾶς διαθήκης βιβλία, ὑποτάξας ἔπεμψά σοι: ὧν ἐστι τὰ ὀνόματα: Μωυσέως πέντε, Γένεσις Ἔξοδος Ἀριθμοὶ Λευιτικὸν Δευτερονόμιον, Ἰησοῦς Ναυῆ, Κριταί, Ῥούθ, Βασιλειῶν τέσσαρα, Παραλειπομένων δύο, Ψαλμῶν Δαυίδ, Σολομῶνος Παροιμίαι ἡ καὶ Σοφία, Ἐκκλησιαστής, Ἆισμα Ἀισμάτων, Ἰώβ, Προφητῶν Ἡσαΐου Ἱερεμίου τῶν δώδεκα ἐν μονοβίβλῳ Δανιήλ, Ἰεζεκιήλ, Ἔσδρας: ἐξ ὧν καὶ τὰς ἐκλογὰς ἐποιησάμην, εἰς ἓξ βιβλία διελών.’ καὶ τὰ μὲν τοῦ Μελίτωνος τοσαῦτα.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 08.01.0640

The theory that Melito of Sardis visited Jerusalem before he wrote Peri Pascha and had the location of the tomb pointed out to him was first (I think) proposed by A. E. Harvey in “Melito and Jerusalem,” The Journal of Theological Studies n.s. 17 (1966) 401-404.

A Gentile Christian church had existed at Aelia Capitolina since its earliest days, and there is no reason to suppose that the position of Golgotha and the Sepulchre, even though buried underneath the Forum and the Temple of Venus, had ever been forgotten. The sacred sites of Palestine had continued to be of interest. We know of a number of distinguished Christian visitors who came to Jerusalem in the second and third centuries (Harvey Melito, 403).

Harvey on Melito and Jerusalem.png (116.06 KiB) Viewed 1333 times

Harvey’s case looks like this:

1 There was a church that existed continuously in Jerusalem/Aelia Capitolina up to the time of Constantine.

2 This church would, naturally, have preserved the location of the site of the crucifixion and tomb of Jesus and pointed them out to Christian visitors.

3 When Melito visited the east ‘where these things were preached and done’, he must have visited Jerusalem, and inquired about the location of the crucifixion and the tomb, and had them pointed out to him. This is why he says, in Peri Pascha, that the cricifixion was “in the middle of the street” and “in the middle of the city.” He would not have contradicted the gospels (John 19.20: “the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city”) and Hebrews 13.12 (“Jesus also suffered outside the city gate ‘) unless he had a historical tradition placing the sites within the walls of the city.. Melito must have visited Jerusalem/Aelia Capitolina after the city had grown and Golgotha at the tomb were within the new walls.

However, we have no written source from after the gospels and before the time of Constantine and Eusebius in which anyone claims to know the sites of the crucifixion and the tomb of Jesus in Jerusalem or speaks of a tradition that does.. Harvey’s case is based on his projection of what, he thinks, *must* have happened and the improbability of Melito’s seeming contradiction of the New Testament.

I’ll cover Von Wahlde’s argument that Melito’s “in the middle of the street” and “in the middle of the city” are most likely rhetorical in another post.

Best,

Ken

PS - Sorry about the size of the screenshot

[Ken Olson]

This reminds me of the differing accounts of what War Secretary Edwin Stanton said right after Abraham Lincoln died. “Now he belongs to the ages” or “Now he belongs to the angels.” Most attestations have “ages.” But these attestations start with Hay, about 25 years later. At that time, historical perspective may have seemed apt. But weary, and religious, Stanton, in the moment, may have had in mind the story of the beggar Lazarus as told in Gospel of Luke 16:22: “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side.” Abraham to Abraham.

Stephen,

What is "this"? I understand the story about Stanton, but to what in this thread are you saying it's analogous?

Best,

Ken

[StephenGoranson]

It is not the case that the view that Melito of Sardis went to Jerusalem is no older than 1966.

Here is an example published in 1842:
“….St. Melito undertook a journey to Jerusalem himself….”
Lives of the primitive fathers:
being a faithful history of the acts and sufferings of those eminent men who lived in the early ages of the Christian church; with copious lists of their writings. To which are prefixed, an account of various systems of heathenism: also a view of the rise and progress of Christianity.
Robert Blakey
London, 1842 page 95 (google books; hathitrust, etc.)

[StephenGoranson]

Can a person who has traveled to Jerusalem write rhetorically? I’ve traveled to Jerusalem, and that was a rhetorical question. That does not mean Melito is necessarily reliable—maybe not, or by degrees--but I think it does mean that dismissing him just because he used rhetoric may not be good work.