Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysus

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Creation by masturbation - Atum created the all out of loneliness

Post by mlinssen »

With the working theory that Thomas, given his anti-Judean and anti-Judaic stance, as well as his logion 60 with the Samaritan carrying a/ their lamb into Judea, highly likely was a Samaritan refugee bred out even born in Egypt, the masturbation / creation view on his parable of the sower finds a really very interesting background in Egypt theology and mythology:

https://hadithi.africa/the-ancient-egyp ... aculation/

Male masturbation was an even more important image in ancient Egypt: when performed by a god it could be considered a creative or magical act: the god Atum was believed to have created the universe by masturbating to ejaculation, in some other accounts, sneeze. Atum is one of the most important and frequently mentioned deities from earliest times, as evidenced by his prominence in the Pyramid Texts, where he is portrayed as both a creator and father to the king, he created his children—the first deities, out of loneliness.

In the Heliopolitan creation myth, Atum was considered to be the first God, having created himself, sitting on a mound (benben) (or identified with the mound itself), from the primordial waters. Early myths state that Atum created the god Shu and goddess Tefnut by spitting them out of his mouth. To explain how Atum did this, the myth uses the metaphor of masturbation, with the hand he used in this act representing the female principle inherent within him. Other interpretations state that he has made union with his shadow.

Let's take a deeper look at the history of ancient Egypt and the Heliopolitan creation myth according to Egyptian cosmogony: Before there was anything, there was Atum, the creator God and main deity of the Egyptian pantheon, who existed by himself. He was surrounded by nothingness, so he decided to put an end to his long solitude and created the world and the rest of the Egyptian gods through masturbation. From his ejaculation emerged the first pair of twin gods, Shu (air god) and Tefnut (moisture goddess). Atum’s semen was the origin of the world, and masturbation the act of creation.

The ancient Egyptians strong belief that male masturbation was very important and they were strongly convinced that their main source of livelihood had come from Atum’s ejaculation, and it was their duty to keep it alive. Pharaohs would perform a ceremony to thank their main god, which involved masturbating at the riverbank and making sure that the semen followed the flow of the river’s waters. This was seen as a good omen and a sign of the continuing life’s cycle, fertility, and the universal order, which would also follow their own course.


The mound evidently represents a vulva, I think.
With my linking / resembling Thomas to what today is knows as radical non duality - where the subconscious realisation of separation leads to endless Seeking, it is more than striking that the feeling and awareness of loneliness drives the need to creation by masturbation

A process of creation it is indeed, and in Thomas it is meant to be perpetual, hence the permanent hard-on - the carrying of one's sa.ti.rho.os in his way

It is a mix, like Thomas itself, which is rooted in Egypt, with a history in Judea (and likely Samaria), influenced by Hellinism (Dionysus). Aimed at self-salvation and liberation (most importantly from religion) it eventually became twisted and turned into Christianity.
The Greeks would have laughed themselves to hilarious mind boggling deaths by all this humongous dramatic irony - and perhaps so did Thomas
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The nomen sacrum IHS

Post by mlinssen »

Purposely spelled like this, as it appears in my translation, where Thomas has 102 occurrences of the regular IS, and 3 of these: logion 13, 22 and 90

Hesychii Alexandrinii, 1867: page 1486
Ihs = Zeus, Hesychii Alexandrinii, 1867
Ihs = Zeus, Hesychii Alexandrinii, 1867
Screenshot_20210702-133758_ReadEra.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 1604 times
Spelled with a capital U, and the silent "h", spiritus asper: he-yes is a likely pronunciation. It is close enough for me, especially since Dionysus, son of Zeus, also got equated with Zeus.
Then again we couldn't possibly expect a spoiler at this point in time, almost 2 millennia afterwards

Once again I will repeat my analysis of the alleged nomina sacra: these must be split in known words and unknown words, and the manner in which each of them gets a superlinear stroke must be carefully administrated, before conclusions can be drawn. The superlinear is more than abundantly present in Coptic, and so is the utter absence of declinations and conjugations, meaning that in principle each of the words now known to us could have existed in only one form in Coptic.
Greek, with its 4 different cases (not counting the vocative) really is a very unfortunate language for creating "abbreviations" like these. And again (and again), IHS and IS can't be counted among those abbreviations unless there is ample attestation to their unabridged version well before the very first appearance of these forms

And there surely isn't anything the like. For all other words there surely is, but not for these
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Re: Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysius

Post by gryan »

I read this thread once quickly and again more slowly, and there is still a lot I don't get. I'm confused enough I am not sure how to ask for clarification.

I take it that in McDonald's book, there is this quotation: "Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysius"

I take it that this quotation has something to do with masturbation, perhaps masturbation to ejaculation. This connection is based on connections with Egyptian deities.

I take it that this cultural/religious context had something to do with the formation of GThomas and also with the NT Gospels.

"Sowing seed" could be interpreted as a veiled reference to masturbation to ejaculation in the Egyptian divine creation sense of the word.

Is that correct, so far?
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Re: Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysus

Post by mlinssen »

gryan wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:01 am I read this thread once quickly and again more slowly, and there is still a lot I don't get. I'm confused enough I am not sure how to ask for clarification.
Most understandable, I have jotted down a lot of thoughts. It will take a few days to get everything aligned and in proper order
I take it that in McDonald's book, there is this quotation: "Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysius"
No, there isn't. MacDonald draws many parallels between Dionysus and John Presbyter, and they are really stunning. But this is a "quote of mine", that is to say, it is how I translate a significant part of logion 55 of Thomas - commonly known as "Carry your cross in my way"
I take it that this quotation has something to do with masturbation, perhaps masturbation to ejaculation. This connection is based on connections with Egyptian deities.
1. There is one single "staurogram" in Thomas, in logion 55 indeed.
2. But it is not a staurogram, none of the Coptic texts that I checked have a staurogram: they use a different letter, the Coptic Ti, one of the Demotic extension that the Copts added to the Greek alphabet.
3. As such, they would pronounce the word ⲥ⳨ⲟⲥ not as s.tau.rho.(o)s, but as s.ti.rho.(o)s. I can't find any word even remotely like that in Coptic, save for ⲥⲁⲧⲉⲉⲣⲉ, the stater (coin).
When I check Greek, again, there is στύραξ (fragrant gum) and στερρός = στερεός, the adjective stiff / strong. σιτηρός is an adjective, of-corn. The only thing that comes close is Σάτυρος.
4. So, with the stirogram in Thomas, it can only say, to the best of my knowledge, having consulted the Coptic dictionary as well as the Greek dictionary, "Carry my satyr".
5. And with the very helpful insights from MacDonald and the undeniable resemblance between Dionysus and significant parts of the Gospel of John, I realised that most else in the NT and Thomas also bears a striking resemblance to Dionysus, with the agricultural themes all over the place, for instance in the parable of the sower, the mustard seed, the vineyard, and so on.
6. And as such, a satyr would be very fitting in the context of Dionysus as well
I take it that this cultural/religious context had something to do with the formation of GThomas and also with the NT Gospels.
I purely focus on Thomas, and that of Thomas which is in the gospels - which is two thirds of all his logia, so basically what you say here applies
"Sowing seed" could be interpreted as a veiled reference to masturbation to ejaculation in the Egyptian divine creation sense of the word.
It is all about interpretation, of course - and likelihood. If you read Thomas just as a text in an Egyptian language, a link to an Egyptian creation myth is far from far-fetched
Is that correct, so far?
Not too bad really, given your confusion. Does this help?
Last edited by mlinssen on Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Carry your satyr in my way - said Dionysus

Post by gryan »

Ok, I think I understand what you have said here. Thanks.
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Academia.edu Discussion on the stirogram has launched

Post by mlinssen »

The Discussion on my stirogram paper has launched over at academia.edu - for those interested, https://www.academia.edu/s/c45adf65df

One little letter to be the stumbling block for all of Christianity; I wonder if there is anyone "within the inner circles" who still knows how it all went down, and as a consequence has been holding his breath for the decades since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library

In related news, I'm collecting all instances of the stirogram from the NHL: 32 occurrences of either cross or crucified, roughly a dozen false positives that translate to either wood or nail, and get translated as the above
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The Greek punishment for masturbation: flogging

Post by mlinssen »

https://www.academia.edu/26990847/2016_ ... Dictionary (Kelly Wrenhaven)
probably also a reference to the lesions slaves suffered when flogged, a punishment slaves might also suffer if caught masturbating (e.g., as implied in Aristophanes’ Frogs 542–548).
I have often wondered why Mark barely names the event, even before I learned of the odd use of a Latin loanword for this instrument that has its own unique native word in every language of the world

Mark 15:15 Ὁ (-) δὲ (And) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), βουλόμενος (desiring) τῷ (to the) ὄχλῳ (crowd) τὸ (that which was) ἱκανὸν (satisfactory) ποιῆσαι (to do), ἀπέλυσεν (released) αὐτοῖς (to them) τὸν (-) Βαραββᾶν (Barabbas), καὶ (and) παρέδωκεν (he delivered) τὸν (-) Ἰησοῦν (Jesus), φραγελλώσας (having flogged him), ἵνα (that) σταυρωθῇ (He might be crucified).

There it was; I hope you paid attention because the moment is gone already.
The way to read the story around Christianity is to focus on that what is being said, and that what is not being said. Initially it doesn't matter what is being said - all it matters is about what something is being said.
A fine example is John the Baptist: he is such a legend, larger than life, with so many stories and rituals surrounding him. Then read the NT, especially the meagre and flimsy 6 verses that he gets in Mark, and you know that they are filling a suspicious void.
Likewise for the flogging, with the story about the 39 lashes and that being a Roman custom and such. Mark 10:34 is such a hilariously evident interpolation:

Matthew 27:34καὶ (And) ἐμπαίξουσιν (they will mock) αὐτῷ (Him), καὶ (and) ἐμπτύσουσιν (will spit upon) αὐτῷ (Him), καὶ (and) μαστιγώσουσιν (will flog) αὐτὸν (Him), καὶ (and) ἀποκτενοῦσιν (will kill), καὶ (and) μετὰ (on the) τρεῖς (third) ἡμέρας (day) ἀναστήσεται (He will rise again).”

Naturally, in Luke this is quite different, as is anything that is reminiscent of Dionysus, as for instance the purple dress and the parody on the Dionysian laurel:

Luke 23:16 παιδεύσας (Having chastised) οὖν (therefore) αὐτὸν (Him), ἀπολύσω (I will release Him).”a

Luke repeats it in verse 23, but the word remains the same as this one, and all of this shows once again why it is useless reading the Bible in English when you're interested in its background. I find it immensely bewildering how people on this forum, many of which are regulars, can quote bible verses in anything else but an interlinear fashion like I do

paideuó: to train children, to chasten, correct
Original Word: παιδεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: paideuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pahee-dyoo'-o)
Definition: to train children, to chasten, correct
Usage: (a) I discipline, educate, train, (b) more severely: I chastise.

Children. The irony is dripping off the bottom of the screen here, and this has no resemblance whatsoever with the incredible painful punishment of flogging. At best this is some kind of spanking, but the link with the theme of children - in the NT as well as in Thomas - is blatantly obvious
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Only 8 staurograms in P45, P66 and P75 together - not 13 as Hurtado claimed

Post by mlinssen »

mlinssen wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:48 pm The Discussion on my stirogram paper has launched over at academia.edu - for those interested, https://www.academia.edu/s/c45adf65df

One little letter to be the stumbling block for all of Christianity; I wonder if there is anyone "within the inner circles" who still knows how it all went down, and as a consequence has been holding his breath for the decades since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library

In related news, I'm collecting all instances of the stirogram from the NHL: 32 occurrences of either cross or crucified, roughly a dozen false positives that translate to either wood or nail, and get translated as the above
Summary: I have gone through all of P45, P66 and P75 - and out of the 13 staurograms that Hurtado mentioned, only 8 can be distinguished in the MSS

With 13 stirograms in the Nag Hammadi Library alone, the balance has switched. And the last sentence of Hurtado's conclusion has become more than questionable:

"In the earliest instances of Christian usage, the staurogram (again, whether taken as a pictogram or a numerical symbol) obviously makes reference to the crucifixion/cross of Jesus, and so (along with the abundant textual evidence) reflects an importance given to Jesus’ crucifixion in Christian faith/piety, from at least as early as the late second century."


As usual, all Discussion content will be collected into a separate paper. All hyperlinked to publicly accessible MSS that comprise the full and complete basis to my findings.
But this time my findings have been so very different from the "known facts" that I will also republish my paper, which is highly unusual

But an end must come to the way in which biblical academics present data that can't be verified easily - and it would be a sign of maturity and professionalism if data were verified in the first place, by its authors, peers, or others
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Re: Only 8 staurograms in P45, P66 and P75 together - cross and crucify in all of the NT

Post by mlinssen »

mlinssen wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 pm
mlinssen wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:48 pm The Discussion on my stirogram paper has launched over at academia.edu - for those interested, https://www.academia.edu/s/c45adf65df

One little letter to be the stumbling block for all of Christianity; I wonder if there is anyone "within the inner circles" who still knows how it all went down, and as a consequence has been holding his breath for the decades since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library

In related news, I'm collecting all instances of the stirogram from the NHL: 32 occurrences of either cross or crucified, roughly a dozen false positives that translate to either wood or nail, and get translated as the above
Summary: I have gone through all of P45, P66 and P75 - and out of the 13 staurograms that Hurtado mentioned, only 8 can be distinguished in the MSS

With 13 stirograms in the Nag Hammadi Library alone, the balance has switched. And the last sentence of Hurtado's conclusion has become more than questionable:

"In the earliest instances of Christian usage, the staurogram (again, whether taken as a pictogram or a numerical symbol) obviously makes reference to the crucifixion/cross of Jesus, and so (along with the abundant textual evidence) reflects an importance given to Jesus’ crucifixion in Christian faith/piety, from at least as early as the late second century."


As usual, all Discussion content will be collected into a separate paper. All hyperlinked to publicly accessible MSS that comprise the full and complete basis to my findings.
But this time my findings have been so very different from the "known facts" that I will also republish my paper, which is highly unusual

But an end must come to the way in which biblical academics present data that can't be verified easily - and it would be a sign of maturity and professionalism if data were verified in the first place, by its authors, peers, or others
A quote from Peter, regarding another claim by Hurtado:
Peter Kirby wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:11 pm The Earliest Christian Artifacts: Manuscripts and Christian Origins By Larry W. Hurtado
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=w5 ... 22&f=false

P.116
  • In none of the other nomina sacra forms (other than IH), however, does the numerical value of the letter combinations appear to have been significant.
I like Hurtado enough, and I want to trust him on this, but in all things regarding this subject, as I'm sure you must agree, it is better to verify. But by verify I do not simply mean find a quote. Generally, I mean verify, on your own. It's hard work, but it is necessary. It's especially necessary for negative claims (like the above), which are much more likely to contain scholarly error than positive ones.
In Hurtado's case, positive claims also are likely to contain errors, and grave ones at that. Here is what I have so far, and it is legible and verifiable although not suited for publication in this exact form yet.
First, a list from all of the NT for all occurrences of cross and crucify:

Below is a complete list of all of the NT for the words 'cross' and 'crucif'. It is based on Berean Literal, and footnote references have been left intact, e.g. "voicesb" in Luke 23:23.
Please do note the only false positive in Acts 2:23!
All in all, 75 verses. 28 occurrences of the word 'cross', and 53 occurrences of any form of the verb 'to crucify' - and all these include the one false positive of Acts 2:23, a verb, so the official "stauro-count" is 74 verses, 28 times "cross"and 52 times "crucif-"

BOOK OF Matthew
Chapter 10 The Twelve Apostles
38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
Chapter 16 The Demand for a Sign
24 Then Jesus said His to disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
Chapter 20 The Parable of the Workers
19 And they will betray Him to the Gentiles to mock and to flog and to crucify; and the third day He will rise again.”
Chapter 23 Woes to Scribes and Pharisees
34 Because of this, behold, I send to you prophets and wise men and scribes. Some of them you will kill and will crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues, and will persecute from town to town;
Chapter 26 The Plot to Kill Jesus
2 “You know that after two days the Passover takes place, and the Son of Man is delivered over to be crucified.”
Chapter 27 Jesus Delivered to Pilate
22 Pilate says to them, “What then should I do with Jesus, who is called Christ?” They all say, “Let Him be crucified.”
23 And he said, “For what evil did He commit?” And they kept crying out all the more, saying, “Let Him be crucified.”
26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and having flogged Jesus, He delivered Him up that He might be crucified.
31 And when they had mocked Him, they took off Him the robe, and they put His garments on Him and led away Him to crucify Him.
32 And going forth, they found a man of Cyrene, named Simon. They compelled him that he might carry His cross.
35 And having crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots.d
38 At the same time two robbers are crucified with Him, one at the right hand, and one at the left.
40 and saying, “The One destroying the temple and building it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, also descend from the cross!”
42 “He saved others. He is not able to save Himself. He is King of Israel! Let Him descend now from the cross, and we will believe in Him.
44 And likewise even the robbers, those having been crucified with Him, were upbraiding Him.
Chapter 28 The Resurrection
5 And the angel answering said to the women, “Fear not; for I know that you seek Jesus, the One having been crucified.
BOOK OF Mark
Chapter 8 The Feeding of the Four Thousand
34 And having summoned the crowd with His disciples, He said to them, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and let him take up his cross, and let him follow Me.
Chapter 15 Jesus Delivered to Pilate
13 And they cried out again, “Crucify Him!”
14 And Pilate was saying to them, “Why? What evil did He commit?” But they shouted much more, “Crucify Him!”
15 And Pilate, desiring to do that which was satisfactory to the crowd, released Barabbas to them. And having flogged Him, he delivered Jesus that He might be crucified.
20 And when they had mocked Him, they took off Him the purple and put on Him His own garments. And they are leading Him out, that they might crucify Him.
21 And they compel one passing by, Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus, coming from the country, that he might carry His cross.
24 And having crucified Him, they also divided His garments, casting lots for them, who should take what.
25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified Him.
27 And with Him they crucify two robbers, one at the right hand, and one at His left.a
30 save Yourself, having descended from the cross!”
32 The Christ, the King of Israel, let Him descend now from the cross, that we might see and believe!” And those being crucified with Him were upbraiding Him.
Chapter 16 The Resurrection
6 And he says to them, “Do not be amazed. You seek Jesus, the Nazarene, the One having been crucified. He is risen! He is not here! Behold the place where they laid Him.
BOOK OF Luke
Chapter 9 The Ministry of the Twelve
23 And He was saying to all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and let him take up his cross every day, and let him follow Me.
Chapter 14 Jesus Heals a Man with Dropsy
27 Whoever does not carry his cross and come after Me is not able to be My disciple.
Chapter 23 Jesus Before Pilate
21 But they were crying out, saying, “Crucify! Crucify Him!”
23 But they were urgent, asking with loud voices for Him to be crucified. And their voicesb were prevailing.
25 And he released the one having been cast into prison on account of insurrection and murder, whom they had asked for; and Jesus he delivered to their will.
26 And as they led Him away, having laid hold on Simon, a certain man of Cyrene coming from the country, they put upon him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus.
33 And when they came to the place called The Skull, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right, and one on the left.
Chapter 24 The Resurrection
7 saying, ‘It behooves the Son of Man to be delivered into hands of sinful men, and to be crucified, and the third day to arise.’”
20 and that our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the judgment of death, and crucified Him.
BOOK OF John
Chapter 19 The Soldiers Mock Jesus
6 Therefore when the chief priests and the officers saw Him, they cried out saying, “Crucify! Crucify!” Pilate says to them, “Take Him yourselves and crucify Him, for I find no guilt in Him.”
10 Therefore Pilate says to Him, “Do You not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?”
15 So they cried out, “Away with Him, away! Crucify Him!” Pilate says to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king except Caesar.”
16 So then, he delivered Him to them, that He might be crucified. Therefore they took Jesus.
17 And bearing His own cross, He went out to the place called the Place of the Skull, which in Hebrew is called Golgotha,
18 where they crucified Him, and with Him two others, on this side and on that side, and Jesus in between.
19 And Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the cross. And it was written, JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.
23 Then the soldiers, when they crucified Jesus, took His garments and made four parts, to each soldier a part, and also the tunic. Now the tunic was seamless, woven from the top all throughout.
25 Now His mother, and the sister of His mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene, had been standing by the cross of Jesus.
31 Therefore the Jews, because it was the Preparation, so that bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath—for that Sabbath was a high day—asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and they might be taken away.
32 So the soldiers came, and indeed they broke the legs of the first, and of the other having been crucified with Him.
41 Now there was a garden in the place where He was crucified, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had yet been laid.
BOOK OF Acts
Chapter 2 The Holy Spirit at Pentecost
23 Him delivered up by the determinate plan and foreknowledge of God, you put to death, having crucified [ >>> προσπήξαντες; this is the only word in all of the NT that doesn't stem from stauros! <<< ] Him by lawless hands,
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Chapter 4 Peter and John Before the Council
10 let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth—whom you crucified, whom God raised out from the dead—in Him this man stands before you sound.
BOOK OF Romans
Chapter 6 Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be annulled, that we are no longer enslaved to sin.
BOOK OF 1 Corinthians
Chapter 1 Greetings from Paul
13 Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of discourse, so that the cross of the Christ should not be emptied of its power. The Message of the Cross
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those indeed perishing, but to us being saved it is the power of God.
23 we, however, preach Christ having been crucified, a stumbling block indeed to the Jewish and foolishness to Gentiles,
Chapter 2 Paul's Message by the Spirit's Power
2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him having been crucified.
8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
BOOK OF 2 Corinthians
Chapter 13 Examine Yourselves
4 For indeed He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by God’s power. For we also are weak in Him, but we will live with Him by God’s power toward you.
BOOK OF Galatians
Chapter 2 The Council at Jerusalem
20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And that which I now live in the flesh, I live through faith from the Son of God, the One having loved me and having given up Himself for me.
Chapter 3 Faith and Belief
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as having been crucified?
Chapter 5 Freedom in Christ
11 Now brothers, if I still proclaim circumcision, why still am I persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.
24 Now those of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Chapter 6 Carry One Another's Burdens
12 As many as desire to have a fair appearance in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised, only that they might not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
14 But for me, may it be never to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whicha the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.
BOOK OF Ephesians
Chapter 2 Alive with Christ
16 and He might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, by it having slain the hostility.
BOOK OF Philippians
Chapter 2 One in Christ
8 And having been found in appearance as a man He humbled Himself, having become obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Chapter 3 Righteousness through Faith
18 For many are walking—of whom I have told you often and now I say even weeping—as enemies of the cross of Christ,
BOOK OF Colossians
Chapter 1 Greetings from Paul and Timothy
20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace by the blood of His cross through Him, whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.
Chapter 2 Absent in Body, Present in Spirit
14 having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
BOOK OF 1 Thessalonians
BOOK OF 2 Thessalonians
BOOK OF 1 Timothy
BOOK OF 2 Timothy
BOOK OF Titus
BOOK OF Philemon
BOOK OF Hebrews

Chapter 6 A Call to Maturity
6 and then having fallen away—to restore them again to repentance, crucifying in themselves the Son of God and subjecting Him to open shame.
Chapter 12 The Call to Endurance
2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who in view of the joy lying before Him endured the cross, having despised its shame, and sat down at right hand of the throne of God.
BOOK OF James
BOOK OF 1 Peter
BOOK OF 2 Peter
BOOK OF 1 John
BOOK OF 2 John
BOOK OF 3 John
BOOK OF Jude
BOOK OF Revelation

Chapter 11 The Two Witnesses
8 And their body will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Last edited by mlinssen on Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Only 8 staurograms in P45, P66 and P75 together - a verifiable list of all

Post by mlinssen »

mlinssen wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:57 pm
mlinssen wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:48 pm The Discussion on my stirogram paper has launched over at academia.edu - for those interested, https://www.academia.edu/s/c45adf65df

One little letter to be the stumbling block for all of Christianity; I wonder if there is anyone "within the inner circles" who still knows how it all went down, and as a consequence has been holding his breath for the decades since the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library

In related news, I'm collecting all instances of the stirogram from the NHL: 32 occurrences of either cross or crucified, roughly a dozen false positives that translate to either wood or nail, and get translated as the above
Summary: I have gone through all of P45, P66 and P75 - and out of the 13 staurograms that Hurtado mentioned, only 8 can be distinguished in the MSS

With 13 stirograms in the Nag Hammadi Library alone, the balance has switched. And the last sentence of Hurtado's conclusion has become more than questionable:

"In the earliest instances of Christian usage, the staurogram (again, whether taken as a pictogram or a numerical symbol) obviously makes reference to the crucifixion/cross of Jesus, and so (along with the abundant textual evidence) reflects an importance given to Jesus’ crucifixion in Christian faith/piety, from at least as early as the late second century."


As usual, all Discussion content will be collected into a separate paper. All hyperlinked to publicly accessible MSS that comprise the full and complete basis to my findings.
But this time my findings have been so very different from the "known facts" that I will also republish my paper, which is highly unusual

But an end must come to the way in which biblical academics present data that can't be verified easily - and it would be a sign of maturity and professionalism if data were verified in the first place, by its authors, peers, or others
Here is something that everyone can verify within a few minutes, free of charge:

P45

https://manuscripts.csntm.org/manuscript/View/GA_P45
CSNTM Image Id: 139779
CSNTM Image Name: P45_001-002a_k2.jpg

A direct link is not provided, but when you click "Switch to new viewer" there is a description to each fragment; Matthew 25.41 is the one to get, and the small version of that looks like this:

https://images.csntm.org/IIIFServer.ash ... native.jpg

Matthew 26:1-3:

1 Καὶ (And) ἐγένετο (it came to pass), ὅτε (when) ἐτέλεσεν (had finished) ὁ (-) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus) πάντας (all) τοὺς (the) λόγους (words) τούτους (these), εἶπεν (He said) τοῖς (to the) μαθηταῖς (disciples) αὐτοῦ (of Him), 2 “Οἴδατε (You know) ὅτι (that) μετὰ (after) δύο (two) ἡμέρας (days) τὸ (the) πάσχα (Passover) γίνεται (takes place), καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Υἱὸς (Son) τοῦ (-) ἀνθρώπου (of Man) παραδίδοται (is delivered) εἰς (over) τὸ (-) σταυρωθῆναι (to be crucified).” 3 Τότε (Then) συνήχθησαν (were gathered together) οἱ (the) ἀρχιερεῖς (chief priests) ...

Halfway the fragment, Matthew 26:1 starts, and these are the letters that are visible:
Καὶ ἐγένετο
ῖς μαθητα
ς τοῦ
ιερεῖς

I couldn't possibly find the relevant part with the stauros, although I am quite unfamiliar with reading (badly damaged) manuscripts. And Hurtado knew that this is a lacuna:

(https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2015 ... m-and-p45/)

"Roth makes a cogent case that, contrary to some previous reports, there are at least two instances of the staurogram in P45: one at Matt. 26:2 (in the single leaf of P45 held in Vienna) and another at Luke 14:27 (in the leaves of P45 held in the Chester Beatty Library, Dublin). Each of these is part of a “nomina sacra” form of the Greek words for “crucify” and “cross”."

One doesn't need to make a case for something that is visible, be that an allegedly cogent case or not. I couldn't possibly locate anything after Luke 14:10 at CSNTM, and given my experience with Hurtado I will leave it just at that. I know he couldn't possibly respond to this, but maybe I will have a look at what Roth has - or maybe not

P66

Again, Interlinear is Berean, and I use CSNTM as the main site but they don't provide direct links, so I use the Swiss site bodmerlab for that.
Consult my earlier post for all the 74 occurrences of 'cross' and 'crucif' in all of the NT: viewtopic.php?p=124941#p124941

1)

https://manuscripts.csntm.org/manuscrip ... r?filter=1
CSNTM Image Id: 603444
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_138.jpg

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=138

5 ἐξῆλθεν (Went forth) οὖν (therefore) ὁ (-) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus) ἔξω (outside), φορῶν (wearing) τὸν (the) ἀκάνθινον (thorny) στέφανον (crown) καὶ (and) τὸ (the) πορφυροῦν (purple) ἱμάτιον (robe). καὶ (And) λέγει (he says) αὐτοῖς (to them), “Ἰδοὺ (Behold) ὁ (the) ἄνθρωπος (man)!”
6 Ὅτε (When) οὖν (therefore) εἶδον (saw) αὐτὸν (Him) οἱ (the) ἀρχιερεῖς (chief priests) καὶ (and) οἱ (the) ὑπηρέται (officers), ἐκραύγασαν (they cried out) λέγοντες (saying), “Σταύρωσον (Crucify)! σταύρωσον (Crucify)!” Λέγει (Says) αὐτοῖς (to them) ὁ (-) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), “Λάβετε (Take) αὐτὸν (Him) ὑμεῖς (yourselves) καὶ (and) σταυρώσατε (crucify Him); ἐγὼ (I) γὰρ (for) οὐχ (no) εὑρίσκω (find) ἐν (in) αὐτῷ (Him) αἰτίαν (guilt).”

Bottom 4 lines:

στέφανον κα
ν? Ὅτε οὖν ε
οἱ ἀρ ... ???
κ ... Λέγει

One could guess a staurogram here, but it is a lacuna, and nothing of it is visible. With the best (or worst) of intentions anything could be likely, reasonable or plausible here, but nothing will ever be proven - so I decline, on both possible instances of a staurogram. It seems that the scribe made a correction above the beginning of the word LEGEI, where ON seems to be visible

The last part of verse 6 is on a different papyrus:

https://manuscripts.csntm.org/manuscrip ... r?filter=1
CSNTM Image Id: 603445
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_139.jpg

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=139

A partial lacuna is shown at the top right, where a staurogram is likely to be, given the superlinear stroke and something that looks like the top of the Rho. But it's a lacuna, and not unambiguous - far from it, really. I will decline, as opinions about what would have been written here will always differ

2)

https://manuscripts.csntm.org/manuscrip ... r?filter=1
CSNTM Image Id: 603445
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_139.jpg

10 Λέγει (Says) οὖν (therefore) αὐτῷ (to Him) ὁ (-) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), “Ἐμοὶ (To me) οὐ (not) λαλεῖς (speak You)? οὐκ (Not) οἶδας (know You) ὅτι (that) ἐξουσίαν (authority) ἔχω (I have) ἀπολῦσαί (to release) σε (You), καὶ (and) ἐξουσίαν (authority) ἔχω (I have) σταυρῶσαί (to crucify) σε (You)?”
11 Ἀπεκρίθη (Answered) ‹αὐτῷ› (him) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus), “Οὐκ (Not) εἶχες (you would have) ἐξουσίαν (authority) κατ’ (also) ἐμοῦ (Me) οὐδεμίαν (against), εἰ (if) μὴ (not) ἦν (it were) δεδομένον (given) σοι (to you) ἄνωθεν (from above). διὰ (Because of) τοῦτο (this), ὁ (the one) παραδούς (having delivered up) μέ (Me) σοι (to you), μείζονα (greater) ἁμαρτίαν (sin) ἔχει has).”

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=139

Consider line 6 from the bottom of the fragment:

οὐκ οἶδας ὅτι ἐ
σαί σε καὶ
αίσ ... αί Ἀπε !!! This is quite different from what the verse has
ουσίαν κατ

It would seem that the MS doesn't say ἔχω (I have) σταυρῶσαί (to crucify) σε (You), but something like ἔχω (I have) σταυρῶσαί (to crucify) - I can't reconstruct this with the MS on one side and the verse on the other

3)

CSNTM Image Id: 603446
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_140.jpg

13 Ὁ (-) οὖν (Therefore) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), ἀκούσας (having heard) τῶν (the) λόγων (words) τούτων (these), ἤγαγεν (brought) ἔξω (out) τὸν (-) Ἰησοῦν (Jesus), καὶ (and) ἐκάθισεν (sat down) ἐπὶ (upon) βήματος (the judgment seat) εἰς (at) τόπον (a place) λεγόμενον (called) Λιθόστρωτον (the Stone Pavement); Ἑβραϊστὶ (in Hebrew) δὲ (now), Γαββαθα (Gabbatha).
14 ἦν (It was) δὲ (now) Παρασκευὴ (the Day of Preparation) τοῦ (of the) πάσχα (Passover); ὥρα (the hour) ἦν (was) ὡς (about) ἕκτη (the sixth). καὶ (And) λέγει (he says) τοῖς (to the) Ἰουδαίοις (Jews), “Ἴδε (Behold) ὁ (the) Βασιλεὺς (king) ὑμῶν (of you)!”
15 Ἐκραύγασαν (They cried out) οὖν (therefore), “Ἐκεῖνοι (With Him) Ἆρον (away), ἆρον (away)! σταύρωσον (Crucify) αὐτόν (Him)!” Λέγει (Says) αὐτοῖς (to them) ὁ (-) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), “Τὸν (The) Βασιλέα (King) ὑμῶν (of you) σταυρώσω (shall I crucify)?”

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=140

τον Ἑβραϊστὶ δὲ
α ἦν δὲ Παρα
ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη κ
ίοις “Ἴδ ... α
αύγασαν ἆρον !!! σ
σstaurogram

The beginning S, followed by the start of an unambiguous staurogram.
Do note that the MS has ἆρον only once, not twice - that, on a side note.
Below that line, another staurogram, preceded by the

4a)

CSNTM Image Id: 603447
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_141.jpg

Ἀπεκρίθησαν (Answered) οἱ (the) ἀρχιερεῖς (chief priests), “Οὐκ (Not) ἔχομεν (we have) βασιλέα (a king), εἰ (if) μὴ (not) Καίσαρα (Caesar).”
16 Τότε (Then) οὖν (therefore) παρέδωκεν (he delivered) αὐτὸν (Him) αὐτοῖς (to them), ἵνα (that) σταυρωθῇ (He might be crucified). Παρέλαβον (They took) οὖν (therefore) τὸν (-) Ἰησοῦν (Jesus).

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=141

Top left fragment:

ασιλέα εἰ μὴ Κ
ρέδωκεν
στ[αυρω]θῇ

A clear staurogram, where the tau and the rho make up for the sounds that are not written in the verb

4b)

17 Καὶ (And) βαστάζων (bearing) ἑαυτῷ (His own) τὸν (-) σταυρὸν (cross), ἐξῆλθεν (He went out) εἰς (to) τὸν (the) λεγόμενον (called) Κρανίου (of the Skull) τόπον (Place), ὃ (which) λέγεται (is called) Ἑβραϊστὶ (in Hebrew) Γολγοθᾶ (Golgotha),
18 ὅπου (where) αὐτὸν (Him) ἐσταύρωσαν (they crucified), καὶ (and) μετ’ (with) αὐτοῦ (Him) ἄλλους (others) δύο (two), ἐντεῦθεν (on this side) καὶ (and) ἐντεῦθεν (on that side), μέσον (in between) δὲ (now) τὸν (-) Ἰησοῦν (Jesus).

Large bottom right fragment, starting at its line 1:

αυτῷ ... ν εἰς τὸ???ν λ
μεν ... ον ὃ λέγεται Ἑβρα
που αὐτὸν [ἐ]στ[αύρωσ]αν, κ

A lacuna for the first stauron in verse 17.
Then a clear staurogram for verse 18, where the tau and the rho (and an invisible S) make up for the sounds that are not written in the verb

4c)

Next lines on the MS:

ους δύο ἐντεῦθεν
έσον δὲ τὸν Ἰ

19 Ἔγραψεν (Wrote) δὲ (then) καὶ (also) τίτλον (a title) ὁ (-) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate) καὶ (and) ἔθηκεν (put it) ἐπὶ (on) τοῦ (the) σταυροῦ (cross). ἦν (It was) δὲ (now) γεγραμμένον (written): ΙΗΣΟΥΣ (JESUS) Ο* (OF) ΝΑΖΩΡΑΙΟΣ (NAZARETH), Ο* (THE) ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ (KING) ΤΩΝ (OF THE) ΙΟΥΔΑΙΩΝ (JEWS).
20 Τοῦτον (This) οὖν (therefore) τὸν (the) τίτλον (title) πολλοὶ (many) ἀνέγνωσαν (read) τῶν (of the) Ἰουδαίων (Jews), ὅτι (for) ἐγγὺς (near) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) τόπος (place), τῆς (the) πόλεως (city), ὅπου (where) ἐσταυρώθη (was crucified) ὁ (-) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus), καὶ (and) ἦν (it was) γεγραμμένον (written) Ἑβραϊστί (in Hebrew), Ῥωμαϊστί (in Latin), Ἑλληνιστί (in Greek).

Next lines on the MS are from the start of verse 19:

δὲ κ ... λον ὁ Π
θηκεν ... οῦ στ[αυρ]οῦ

A clear staurogram, where the tau and the rho make up for the sounds that are not written in the noun

The fragment ends with the three last lines, verse 20:

ῶν Ἰουδαίων ὅτι
ος τ(ῆ)ς
ηνιστ

The staurogram could only be in between that first and third line, but there is a lacuna. Again, I must decline

5)

CSNTM Image Id: 603448
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_142.jpg

21 ἔλεγον (Were saying) οὖν (therefore) τῷ (-) Πιλάτῳ (to Pilate) οἱ (the) ἀρχιερεῖς (chief priests) τῶν (of the) Ἰουδαίων (Jews), “Μὴ (Not) γράφε (write), ‘Ὁ (The) Βασιλεὺς (King) τῶν (of the) Ἰουδαίων (Jews),’ ἀλλ’ (but) ὅτι (that) ἐκεῖνος (He) εἶπεν (said), ‘Βασιλεύς (King) εἰμι (I am) ⇔ «τῶν (of the) Ἰουδαίων» (Jews).’”
22 Ἀπεκρίθη (Answered) ὁ (-) Πιλᾶτος (Pilate), “Ὃ (What) γέγραφα (I have written), γέγραφα (I have written).”

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=142

The fragment starts with the top right:

ιλάτῳ οἱ ἀρχ
ων Μὴ γρά
ν ἀλ
instead of εἶπεν it says LEGEI !
ίθη
αφα

It then continues:

23 Οἱ (The) οὖν (then) στρατιῶται (soldiers), ὅτε (when) ἐσταύρωσαν (they crucified) τὸν (-) Ἰησοῦν (Jesus), ἔλαβον (took) τὰ (the) ἱμάτια (garments) αὐτοῦ (of Him) καὶ (and) ἐποίησαν (made) τέσσαρα (four) μέρη (parts), ἑκάστῳ (to each) στρατιώτῃ (soldier) μέρος (a part), καὶ (and also) τὸν (the) χιτῶνα (tunic). ἦν (Was) δὲ (now) ὁ (the) χιτὼν (tunic) ἄραφος (seamless), ἐκ (from) τῶν (the) ἄνωθεν (top) ὑφαντὸς (woven) δι’ (throughout) ὅλου (all).

Οἱ οὖν στρατιῶ ... σταύρ

Not a staurogram this time, the top of STAUR is just legible, and the next line continues with the remainder of the word:

σαν τὸν Ἰ[ησοῦ]ν

6)

The next occurrence is in verse 25:

CSNTM Image Id: 603449
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_143.jpg

25 Εἱστήκεισαν (Had been standing) δὲ (now) παρὰ (by) τῷ (the) σταυρῷ (cross) τοῦ (-) Ἰησοῦ (of Jesus) ἡ (the) μήτηρ (mother) αὐτοῦ (of Him), καὶ (and) ἡ (the) ἀδελφὴ (sister) τῆς (of the) μητρὸς (mother) αὐτοῦ (of Him), Μαρία (Mary) ἡ (the wife) τοῦ (-) Κλωπᾶ (of Clopas), καὶ (and) Μαρία (Mary) ἡ (-) Μαγδαληνή (Magdalene).

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=143

The third line has the start of verse 25 at the end:

αν δ
αρὰ τ ... ήτηρ

and the possible stauros sits in the lacuna - I decline again.
Three more verses in John: 31, 32 and 41

7)

CSNTM Image Id: 603450
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_144.jpg

31 Οἱ (-) οὖν (Therefore) Ἰουδαῖοι (the Jews), ἐπεὶ (because) Παρασκευὴ (the Preparation) ἦν (it was), ἵνα (so that) μὴ (not) μείνῃ (would remain) ἐπὶ (on) τοῦ (the) σταυροῦ (cross) τὰ (the) σώματα (bodies) ἐν (on) τῷ (the) σαββάτῳ (Sabbath)— ἦν (was) γὰρ (for) μεγάλη (a high) ἡ (-) ἡμέρα (day) ἐκείνου (that) τοῦ (-) σαββάτου (Sabbath)— ἠρώτησαν (asked) τὸν (-) Πιλᾶτον (Pilate) ἵνα (that) κατεαγῶσιν (might be broken) αὐτῶν (their) τὰ (-) σκέλη (legs), καὶ (and) ἀρθῶσιν (they might be taken away).

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=144

The middle fragment is conveniently in black and white, and the third line has the staurogram:

σ[ταυρ]οῦ τὰ σώ

32 ἦλθον (Came) οὖν (therefore) οἱ (the) στρατιῶται (soldiers), καὶ (and) τοῦ (of the) μὲν (indeed) πρώτου (first) κατέαξαν (broke) τὰ (the) σκέλη (legs), καὶ (and) τοῦ (of the) ἄλλου (other) τοῦ (-) συσταυρωθέντος (having been crucified with) αὐτῷ (Him);

The bottom last line of the same black-and-whit middle fragment starts verse 32:

ται καὶ τοῦ μὲν (π)ρ
ν τὰ σ ... κ
συνσ

The word in the text starts with συνσ(ταυρωθέντος), not συσ(ταυρωθέντος) - but again the possible staurogram sits in the lacuna - and again I must decline

8)

The very last occurrence is in verse 41:

CSNTM Image Id: 603452
Location: Foundation Martin Bodmer at Université de Genève in Geneva, Switzerland
CSNTM Image Name: P66_146.jpg

41 Ἦν (There was) δὲ (now) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) τόπῳ (place) ὅπου (where) ἐσταυρώθη (He was crucified) κῆπος (a garden), καὶ (and) ἐν (in) τῷ (the) κήπῳ (garden) μνημεῖον (a tomb) καινόν (new), ἐν (in) ᾧ (which) οὐδέπω (not yet) οὐδεὶς (no one) ἦν (was) τεθειμένος (laid).

Pleasant URL: https://bodmerlab.unige.ch/fr/constella ... 7?page=146

Starting at the smallest bottom left fragment, verse 41 can be found:

τό(π)ῳ ὅπου ... θη

The word in between could be a staurogram but there would be a lot of space left, and ἐσταυρ would neatly fit into the lacuna

That concludes John and all occurrences of 'cross' and 'crucif', and that concludes my search in the 3 MSS that Hurtado mentions: P45, P66 and P75.

What is the total score?

John 19:6 - a lacuna for both possible instances, and a partially visible third occurrence (not counted)
John 19:10 - a lacuna, and the MS deviates from the bible verse
John 19:15 - the S, followed by an unambiguous staurogram - and another s-staurogram right below that line
John 19:16 - an unambiguous staurogram
John 19:17 - a lacuna
John 19:18 - an unambiguous staurogram
John 19:19 - an unambiguous staurogram
John 19:20 - a lacuna
John 19:23 - not a staurogram, just the full word
John 19:25 - a lacuna
John 19:31 - an unambiguous staurogram
John 19:32 - a lacuna
John 19:41 - a lacuna that is more likely to contain the full word than a staurogram

6 total instances, where Hurtado had 10

P75

Luke 9:23: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Pap.Han ... ter.Verbi)

1A.11r, line 8 from the top, shows the staurogram

With the Rho directly above it in line 7, it appears that this one was formed by simply writing a Rho and placing a horizontal bar at the bottom of the loop, and as such it looks very similar to the stirogram, even though the Rho is slightly elevated This one looks very different from the one in Luke 14:27

Luke 14:27:
https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Pap.Han ... ter.Verbi)

1B.10r, line 4 from the top, shows the staurogram

A clear Tau with a Rho on top of it

Luke 24:7: https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Pap.Han ... ter.Verbi)

2A.6v, line 19 from the bottom, shows the staurogram - it is the line right below the missing papyrus piece to the right

This staurogram seems like a combination of the other two, but yet again the horizontal bar is slightly below the top letter line, and it resembles a stirogram rather than a staurogram, like the one in Luke 9:23 does

Three different ligatures, it would seem that the scribe wasn't used to writing them

@@@@@@@@@@

That concludes the search. Out of the 13 claimed by Hurtado, only 9 are visible - but you be the judge of that
Last edited by mlinssen on Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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