Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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maryhelena
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

Post by maryhelena »

If anyone has access to sagepub - a review of the book is dated 8th June. (It's £29 for access - would rather spend that towards buying the book - but first need a bit more info on it's contents....)

Book Review / Compte rendu: The Origins of Early Christian Literature: Contextualizing the New Testament within Greco-Roman Literary Culture

Zeba Crook

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 ... 8211022142
StephenGoranson
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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After a summary of contents, Z.C.'s evaluation includes:

There is much to admire about this work. …. But there are two questions that linger for me …. First, we know there were several Pauline communities, that they talked about Jesus, and that there was a literary specialist associated with them (namely, Paul). Even granting that these communities were not cohesive and that Paul’s authority over them was tenuous and contested, why is it so impossible that four non-Pauline Christ-confessing communities might have also had a literary specialist in their midst to write a bios? Secondly, how does an elite literary circle account for the synoptic data? …..
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maryhelena
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

Post by maryhelena »

StephenGoranson wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:04 am After a summary of contents, Z.C.'s evaluation includes:

There is much to admire about this work. …. But there are two questions that linger for me …. First, we know there were several Pauline communities, that they talked about Jesus, and that there was a literary specialist associated with them (namely, Paul). Even granting that these communities were not cohesive and that Paul’s authority over them was tenuous and contested, why is it so impossible that four non-Pauline Christ-confessing communities might have also had a literary specialist in their midst to write a bios? Secondly, how does an elite literary circle account for the synoptic data? …..
Thanks for that summary....

Amazon on the book:

Robyn Faith Walsh argues that the Synoptic gospels were written by elite cultural producers working within a dynamic cadre of literate specialists,

'''''literate specialists''....

Maybe Robyn Welsh has had a look at Brodie after all...

Thomas Brodie: Conclusion: Christianity, insofar as it was a new religion, was founded by a school of writers, or more likely by a religious community many of whose members were writers.' The process of writing was probably interwoven with specific events and/or religious experiences-a matter that needs urgent research. (Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus)

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neilgodfrey
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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StephenGoranson wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:04 am After a summary of contents, Z.C.'s evaluation includes:

. . . why is it so impossible that four non-Pauline Christ-confessing communities might have also had a literary specialist in their midst to write a bios? . . . .
The interview left me with the clear impression that this is the very model Robyn Walsh is challenging.
StephenGoranson
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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"The interview left me with the clear impression that this is the very model Robyn Walsh is challenging."

Yes, and Z. C., who of course read and summarized the book, if I may say so, may have a right to say, on that matter, that he is not persuaded.
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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Am I wrong, or is that another example where the belief in the existence of a historical Paul is an obstacle to a serious understanding of the Origins?
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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In Alexandria, Apollos from Acts appears to know about Christ ONLY by reading the scriptures.
perseusomega9
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

Post by perseusomega9 »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:34 am Am I wrong, or is that another example where the belief in the existence of a historical Paul is an obstacle to a serious understanding of the Origins?
If not a belief in a historical Paul, but at least the assumption of what? Seven authentic epistles with no substantive interpolations or edits?
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

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StephenGoranson wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:26 am "The interview left me with the clear impression that this is the very model Robyn Walsh is challenging."

Yes, and Z. C., who of course read and summarized the book, if I may say so, may have a right to say, on that matter, that he is not persuaded.
Well obviously that trumps my own listening to the words of Robyn Walsh herself.

But oh my gosh! Do you mean to imply that if a scholar has reviewed a book that he has got everything he writes about it correct and has represented the argument with full fairness and understanding?!! How could there ever be anything else in the scholarly world of book reviews!

But but but ... if that is the case, then do you mean to tell us that scholars disagree?!! I guess that means we have to throw out Robyn Walsh's book before we even bother to read it for ourselves.

But it's good to be reminded that when we read there are others out there who have a different view of things. Thanks for the notice, Stephen.
Last edited by neilgodfrey on Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Robyn Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature

Post by neilgodfrey »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:34 am Am I wrong, or is that another example where the belief in the existence of a historical Paul is an obstacle to a serious understanding of the Origins?
Robyn Walsh does say in the interview with Mark Goodacre that she sees the life of Jesus modelled on the life of Paul.

(Of course, it is beyond the pale to raise the mere concept of the reverse process at this point, that Paul was modelled on Jesus .... the French midrashic school is way too far "out there" for these discussions at this point.)
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