"James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

Re: "Does anyone know what Hegesippus means here? What had the prophets declared regarding James the Just?"

My interpretation assumes that the sayings of gThomas are utterances declared by people who 1) were familiar with gMark and Galatians and 2) were regarded by those who record and repeated their words as having the gift of prophecy.

The James of Galatians 2:9 who saw Paul's gift and who led the pillars in extending the right hand of fellowship, doing so even in the presence of an uncircumcised Greek--the James of Acts 15 who spoke against burdening the Gentile converts with the burden of circumcision--was "the just James" of gThomas. Mary of "the James" in Mark 16:1 at the empty tomb along with Mary Magdalene and Salome was his mother. He had originally became widely known as "the just James" to distinguish him from "the lesser James" of Mark15:40. The James of "some from James" the Lord's brother of Galatians 1:19 and 2:12 was "the lesser" of these two Jameses. The different Gospel being preached by some from this lesser James was criticised in Galatians 2:16: "...all flesh will not be made just by works of the law." The opposition to Paul voiced by the circumcision party of Acts 15 was anonymously expressive of those from this lesser James. Mary, the mother of the "the lesser James" was the birth mother of Jesus "according to the flesh." But by the time of Hegesippus, who spoke under the influence by Acts of the Apostles, the opposition between the two Jameses in gMark and Galatians had been glossed over and it was thought that each of the three mentions of James in Galatians referred to one and the same person--"James the Just."
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GakuseiDon
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by GakuseiDon »

gryan wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:14 am Re: "Does anyone know what Hegesippus means here? What had the prophets declared regarding James the Just?"

My interpretation assumes that the sayings of gThomas are utterances declared by people who 1) were familiar with gMark and Galatians and 2) were regarded by those who record and repeated their words as having the gift of prophecy.
It sounds to me as though Hegesippus is referring to the prophets of the OT. The gThomas quote you gave on the last page "Wherever you go, you will turn to James the Just, for whose sake heaven as well as earth was produced" also sounds like a quote from the OT. "Wherever you go" is interesting, since Paul himself travelled far but apparently Galatians shows him turning to James at one point.

To me, there are echoes with John the Baptist. Both are known for their righteousness, both for their eating habits (James didn't eat flesh nor drank wine, John the B ate honey and locusts) and what they wear (James wore linen and didn't wear wool, John the B wore camel's hair). John the B is Jesus's cousin in gJohn; James is Jesus's brother. Not that I'm trying to imply that they were originally the same person, but rather that there was a common myth-making process applied to both.

My point: John the B was 'prophecised' in the OT, so I'd imagine that James the Just had some applied to him as well. It may be that they existed but didn't make it through to us. I was wondering if any did make it through.

(ETA) Rereading the Hegesippus passage as given by Eusebius, I see "Thus they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah: "Let us away with the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore shall they eat the fruit of their doings." So that's one.
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

GakuseiDon wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:08 am
gryan wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:14 am Re: "Does anyone know what Hegesippus means here? What had the prophets declared regarding James the Just?"

My interpretation assumes that the sayings of gThomas are utterances declared by people who 1) were familiar with gMark and Galatians and 2) were regarded by those who record and repeated their words as having the gift of prophecy.
It sounds to me as though Hegesippus is referring to the prophets of the OT. The gThomas quote you gave on the last page "Wherever you go, you will turn to James the Just, for whose sake heaven as well as earth was produced" also sounds like a quote from the OT. "Wherever you go" is interesting, since Paul himself travelled far but apparently Galatians shows him turning to James at one point.

To me, there are echoes with John the Baptist. Both are known for their righteousness, both for their eating habits (James didn't eat flesh nor drank wine, John the B ate honey and locusts) and what they wear (James wore linen and didn't wear wool, John the B wore camel's hair). John the B is Jesus's cousin in gJohn; James is Jesus's brother. Not that I'm trying to imply that they were originally the same person, but rather that there was a common myth-making process applied to both.

My point: John the B was 'prophecised' in the OT, so I'd imagine that James the Just had some applied to him as well. It may be that they existed but didn't make it through to us. I was wondering if any did make it through.

(ETA) Rereading the Hegesippus passage as given by Eusebius, I see "Thus they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah: "Let us away with the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore shall they eat the fruit of their doings." So that's one.
Correct me if I'm wrong; but, in Mark/Galatians/gThomas, I don't see any reference to prophecy being fulfilled in the life of James son of Alphaeus/James the pillar/James the Just or any "James" at all. The gospels written later, Matt and Luke, were more into that way of thinking, but they did not talk that way about anyone named James. Hegesippus seems to be building on that later way of thinking exemplified in Matt and Luke by applying the prophecy fulfillment model to James. Of course it is probably possible to find proof texts for Hegesippus's claim from the OT.
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

Re: Gospel of the Hebrews and the identity of "James the Just"

Fragment 7.
"The Gospel according to the Hebrews ...records after the resurrection: And when the Lord had given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, he went to James and appeared to him. For James had sworn that he would not eat bread from that hour in which he had drunk the cup of the Lord until he should see him risen from among them that sleep. And shortly thereafter the Lord said: Bring a table and bread! And immediately it is added: He took the bread, blessed it and brake it and gave it to James the Just and said to him: My brother, eat thy bread, for the Son of man is risen from among them that sleep. (Jerome, De viris illustribus 2)"

According to Ehrman, "Fragment 7 emphasizes the importance of James, the brother of Jesus and head of the Jewish–Christian movement in Jerusalem after Jesus' death, thereby testifying to the Jewish character of the community of the gospel."

But does addressing "James" as "my brother" mean that Jesus was speaking to his blood brother? I doubt it. Karl Wieseler [1813-1883] "understands frater mi [in Frag.7 of gHebrews] in a spiritual sense, as in John 20:17, Matthew 28:10." https://biblehub.com/commentaries/galatians/1-19.htm

As one of the 12, James son of Alphaeus, had been at the last supper, and so he, as a spiritual brother of Jesus, is a more likely candidate. The word "brother" is used in this the spiritual sense in fragment 5 of gHebrews: "And never be ye joyful, save when ye behold your brother with love. (Jerome, Commentary on Ephesians 3)" Nevertheless, it must be admitted that this usage is rare. Jesus does not address anyone as "my brother" in the other gospels. The phrase "my brother" gives the scene a special intimacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_the_Hebrews
John2
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by John2 »

GakuseiDon wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:02 pm
So I take the story to be referring to James' holiness, his status in the paradigm of Judaism's ideals.

Me too.

rakovsky wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:49 am"... Therefore, in consequence of his pre-eminent justice, he was called the Just, and Oblias, which signifies in Greek Defence of the People, and Justice, in accordance with what the prophets declare concerning him."
Does anyone know what Hegesippus means here? What had the prophets declared regarding James the Just?

That James was a "just one" and defended the people by being exceptionally holy, The Teacher of Righteousness in the Dead Sea Scrolls was a "just one" too and passages in the OT that contain the word "just one" (zaddik) are applied to him, including regarding his death, and I figure the same was true for James, like Hegesippus says in EH 2.23.15:

And they cried out, saying, 'Oh! Oh! The just man is also in error.' And they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah, 'Let us take away the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings.'
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

John2 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:34 pm
That James was a "just one" and defended the people by being exceptionally holy, The Teacher of Righteousness in the Dead Sea Scrolls was a "just one" too and passages in the OT that contain the word "just one" (zaddik) are applied to him, including regarding his death, and I figure the same was true for James, like Hegesippus says in EH 2.23.15:

And they cried out, saying, 'Oh! Oh! The just man is also in error.' And they fulfilled the Scripture written in Isaiah, 'Let us take away the just man, because he is troublesome to us: therefore they shall eat the fruit of their doings.'
@John2

Do you view "James the Just" as being in opposition to Paul (as Robert Eisenman does)?

"Robert Eisenman has proposed the Historical Jesus was actually the Nazarene James, the Teacher of Righteousness against a "Wicked Priest" (Ananus ben Ananus), and a "Spouter of Lies" which Eisenman identifies as Paul of Tarsus.[13][14]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher_o ... hteousness
John2
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by John2 »

gryan wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:44 am
@John2

Do you view "James the Just" as being in opposition to Paul (as Robert Eisenman does)?

No. To judge from Acts, James' NT letter (which I think is genuine), what Paul says in Gal. 2:9 and what Jerome says about Nazarenes, I think James approved of Paul preaching about Jesus to Gentiles. And though James reproved Paul regarding the necessity of Jewish Torah observance ((in Acts 21:20-24 and his letter), he ends his letter with his belief that someone who wanders from the truth can be turned from "the error of his way," And Paul (whether due to this pressure from James or not) says that he was at least willing to pretend to be Torah observant in 1 Cor. 9:20 (which is in keeping with the presentation of Paul in Acts 21:26).


James 5:19-20:

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this. Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

Re: "what Jerome says about Nazarenes"
https://jewinthepew.org/2015/09/30/30-s ... y-otdimjh/

I note that Heggesippus is called "Heggesippus the Nazarene." According to Jerome, "The Nazarenes… accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law."

When James confronts Cephas, he accuses him of not eating with Gentiles specifically in response of "some from James" (ie the Lord's brother, not the recognized pillar, as I interpret the scenario) who were from the circumcision party. Then in 2:16, when Paul says "all flesh will not be saved by works of the law." I interpret this (with support from Commentary on Galatians by Jerome) to mean that some "flesh"--people born under the law--can be made righteous by a combination of "works of the law" and belief in the Messiah; but that such a combination would not work for "all flesh"--that is, practicing "works of the law" ought not be expected of the Gentile converts in the audience of the letter.

Even if Paul thought of James the Lord's brother as an overseer in Jerusalem, as Heggesippus says he was, I think it was James the son of Alphaeus who was his leading supporter Gal 2:9, and I think that the author of Acts makes the figure of "James" into a kind of harmonization of the James of Gal 2:9 with the Lord's brother.
John2
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by John2 »

gryan wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:39 am Re: "what Jerome says about Nazarenes"

https://jewinthepew.org/2015/09/30/30-s ... y-otdimjh/

Regarding Jerome, I was referring to this passage in On Isaiah 9:1-4:

The Nazoreans whose opinion I have set forth above, try to explain this passage in the fol­lowing way: When Christ came and his preaching shone out, the land of Zebulon and the land of Naphthali first of all were freed from the errors of the Scribes and the Pharisees and he shook off their shoulders the very heavy yoke of the Jewish traditions. Later, how­ever, the preaching became more dominant, that means the preaching was multiplied, through the Gospel of the apostle Paul who was the last of all the apostles. And the Gos­pel of Christ shone to the most distant tribes and the way of the whole sea. Finally the whole world which earlier walked or sat in darkness and was imprisoned in the bonds of idolatry and death, has seen the clear light of the gospel.

Even if Paul thought of James the Lord's brother as an overseer in Jerusalem, as Heggesippus says he was, I think it was James the son of Alphaeus who was his leading supporter Gal 2:9, and I think that the author of Acts makes the figure of "James" into a kind of harmonization of the James of Gal 2:9 with the Lord's brother.


Acts appears to distinguish James the son of Alphaeus from Jesus' brothers in 1:13-14:

When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
gryan
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Re: "James the Just": What is the origin of the phrase?

Post by gryan »

John2 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:15 pm
Acts appears to distinguish James the son of Alphaeus from Jesus' brothers in 1:13-14:
When they arrived, they went to the upper room where they were staying: Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. With one accord they all continued in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
Agreed. With that clarity of distinction between James, son of Alphaeus and Jesus' brothers, and bearing in mind that 1) the author of Luke-Acts never identifies Jesus' brothers of Acts 1:14 by their names, and that 2) according to Acts 12:2 James the brother of John has been martyred, which "James" is the author of Acts referring to in the following passage?

Acts 15:1f

1Then some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers (τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς), “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2And after engaging these men in sharp debate, Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders (τοὺς ἀποστόλους καὶ πρεσβυτέρους) about this question.

3Sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, recounting the conversion of the Gentiles and bringing great joy to all the brothers (τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς). 4On their arrival in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the assembly and apostles and elders ( τῆς ἐκκλησίας καὶ τῶν ἀποστόλων καὶ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων), to whom they reported all that God had done through them.

5But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6 So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Men/brothers (Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί), you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12All the multitude (πᾶν τὸ πλῆθος) fell silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they had finished speaking, James declared, “Men/brothers ( Ἄνδρες ἀδελφοί), listen to me! 14Simona [Simon Peter] has told us how God first visited the Gentiles to take from them a people to be His own. 15The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:

16‘After this I will return and rebuild

the fallen tent of David.

Its ruins I will rebuild,

and I will restore it,

17so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,

and all the Gentiles who are called by My name,

says the Lord who does these things

18that have been known for ages.’

19It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. 21For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


-----------------------

Paul went to Jerusalem to see "the apostles and elders". The son of Alphaeus named "James" was one of the 12 apostles, just like Peter. So, as I read it, the preponderance of the evidence in Acts suggests that the "James" who spoke in one accord with Peter in support of Paul was the son of Alphaeus.

As you read Acts, who was the speaker named James in Acts 15? If there is no room for confusion in Acts about whether the speaker in Acts 15 was the son of Alphaeus or Jesus' brother named James, then I will need to admit that Heggesippus did not derive his idea of the Lord's brother as James the Just from any such ambiguity in Acts. But given the weight of tradition for seeing the speaker in Acts 15 as the Lord's brother, I doubt that is the conclusion you are suggesting. Please explain.
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