Jax wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:14 am
maryhelena wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:05 am
OK thanks - I'll look at the links later this evening.
As someone here that has an interest and background in the history of the 1st century BCE, I really look forward to any and all critical observations that you can level onto this subject.
Lane
OK, Lane, here is my take on your Paul theory.
Let me begin by acknowledging the huge amount of work, and time, you have put into this project.
My first thought, even prior to considering Aretas III, was a difficulty imagining a Jew fighting with a Roman army. Perhaps some did - I suppose there is always the possibility of a mercenary with a gun to hire approach to life. However, I think that once one would go with that approach to a historical Paul then all bets are off. Is such a man after the money or is he after the adventure - or even a psychopath using war as a cover for killing people. A man of no morals or ideology, religion or philosophy.
Placing a historical Paul running from Aretas III around the second time Aretas III controlled Damascus in 69 b.c. would not be a big issue for me - (as opposed to the end of Aretas III control of Damascus around 64/63 b.c.) However, where was the historical Paul when Roman troops entered Jerusalem in 63 b.c. and Pompey entered the Holy of Holies of the Jerusalem temple? Did he side with Rome against his own Jewish people?
Yes, the NT story has given it’s Paul figure a change of heart. From being a persecutor to being a man welcoming Greek and Jew as one - enemies no more. It’s possible that an historical mercenary Paul had a change of heart - but, chronologically, this would be dated to the lst century. (If a historical Paul was already running from Aretas III in 69 b.c. then he was at least a young man - possibly a birth around 89 b.c. or earlier…)
One could argue that the later NT writers transformed a first century Paul into the Paul of the epistles - his wayward days of fighting with the Romans in foreign places becomes the template for Paul’s new role as an apostle to the Gentiles. When did that missionary work begin? Surely, doubtful in the lst century b.c. However, once one has moved Paul to the lst century then one also has to move his Christ crucified figure to the first century b.c. (one then has to deal with the Roman execution of Antigonus in 37 b.c. ) Also of courses, we are now in the chronological frame of the Toledot Yeshu - and Alexander Jannaeus.
And with Alexander Jannaeus in the chronological time frame - other options for a Paul figure arise. By linking the NT Paul figure with Aretas - the NT writers have opened up a historical landscape of Hasmonean history. In the chronological time frame of Aretas III, (control of Damascus in 85 b.c. ) the Hasmonean warrior figure was Alexander Jannaeus.
Alexander Jannaeus
The kingdom of Alexander Jannaeus was the largest and strongest known Jewish State outside of biblical sources, having conquered most of Palestine's Mediterranean coastline and regions surrounding the Jordan River.
<snip>
The Judean Civil War initially began after the conquest of Gaza around 99 BCE. Due to Jannaeus's victory at Gaza, the Nabataean kingdom no longer had direct access to the Mediterranean Sea. Alexander soon captured Gadara, which together with the loss of Gaza caused the Nabataeans to lose their main trade routes leading to Rome and Damascus. After losing Gadara, the Nabataean king Obodas I launched an attack against Alexander in a steep valley at Gadara, where Alexander barely managed to escape.
<snip>
Final campaigns and death
During his last years, Alexander continued campaigning in the east.[20] The Nabataean king Aretas III managed to defeat Alexander in battle, however, Alexander continued expanding the Hasmonean kingdom into Transjordan.[20] In Gaulanitis, he captured the cities of Gaulana, Seleucia, Gamala[20] and Hippos;[13] in Galaaditis, the cities of Pella, Dium, and Gerasa.[20] Alexander had Pella destroyed for refusing to Judaize.[21] Alexander captured all these cities in a period of three years (83-80 BCE). Three years later, Alexander had succumbed to an illness during the siege of Ragaba.[20] Having reigned 27 years, Alexander Jannaeus died at the age of forty-nine.[22]
The Pauline epistles by linking Paul to Aretas III (no other Aretas controlled Damascus) is placing it’s Paul figure in the time of the Hasmoneans. Not simply the time of the Hasmonean civil war between Artistobulus II and Hyrancus II - a civil war in which Aretas III was involved in trying to unseat Aristobulus II and reinstate Hyrcanus II - but also the time of Alexander Jannaeus. Yes, the NT story about Paul’s missionary travels are not the same places where Alexander Jannaeus fought wars. But it’s not Roman history that is relevant to the Paul and Aretas linkage - it is Hasmonean history linked to Aretas III.
Basically, what I think is going on here is that the NT writers have modelled their literary Paul, Paul as a persecuting figure, on Alexander Jannaeus. They have transformed Alexander Jannaeus’s wars of expanding the Jewish territory to their literary Paul figure expanding the missionary work to Gentiles in foreign places. In a sense - updating Hasmonean history from nationalism to universalism.
It’s a bit like the gospel JC story. Underneath the turn the other cheek is a zealot type Jesus. Reza Aslan’s ZEALOT and Fernando Bermejo-Rubio: Jesus and the Anti-Roman Resistance. A Reassessment of the Arguments”, Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus 12 (2014) 1-105.
https://www.academia.edu/10232441/_Jesu ... 2014_1_105
As of now, Lane, that’s about how I see things. A historical Paul is useless but Paul as a paper apostle - therein lies opportunity to further research into early Jewish origins of Christianity.
Paul - have gun will travel mercenary fighting with the Romans - or Alexander Jannaeus as a military leader of renown ? A model of Jewish national expansion that foreshadowed a Hasmonean push for a new spiritual, philosophical world view of neither Jew nor Greek ?
So…well done, Lane - scratch the surface and you came up with a historical Paul as a military, mercenary type Jewish fighter - albeit with the Romans. Scratch a little bit deeper - and you have a historical King and High Priest of the Jews, Alexander Jannaeus, 103 – 76 b.c. loosing a battle against Aretas III. (and thanks for pushing my thinking about the NT Paul as far back as Alexander Jannaeus and Aretas III....
)
Judaea, Hasmonean Period. Alexander Jannaeus (Yehonatan). AE prutah. 103-76 BC. 1.43 g.
Lily surrounded by Hebrew "Yehonatan the King".
Anchor within circle, "Alexander the king".
AJC I, Group A. Hendin 467.
With permission of Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins & Collectibles Auction 10, Lot 2605, May 2001.
https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/ ... eus/t.html