Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:34 am To be clear, I do not recall referring to mary nor to anyone else here as a heretic.

Actually, I'm more than happy to call myself a heretic......

Popcorn can be tasty, though not very nutritious. Virtual popcorn, I imagine, even less so.
As for Kool-Aid ™, historians know that it was not available to Jesus and to those who knew him.

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:57 am As for Kool-Aid ™, historians know that it was not available to Jesus and to those who knew him.

One of those occasions on which an argument from silence suddenly does count?

Jesus historians know it all

The invention of Kool-Aid ™ is relatively well documented, at least according to some historians--religious, secular and agnostic historians I'd bet--though that may little matter in some quarters.

And, if we take the post-Jonestown connotation of drinking it, had I done, I’d be dead.

Irish1975 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:03 am There were no "heretics" before the emperors imposed laws of religion on the general population. The abuse of the term hairesis in theological polemic prior to 380 CE is not evidence of a social reality.

The young Augustine was no heretic during the seven years that he studied with the Manichaeans. That was before the promulgation of Cunctos Populos. That young man only became a heretic retrospectively, in the mind of the wretched old autobiographer.

The very idea of heresy is parasitic on the concept of orthodox subjects of emperors and bishops (who are orthodox by definition).

Manichaeanism was illegal before 380 CE.

If we set aside the ferocious edict of Diocletian which seems to have become void shortly after his abdication, Valens and Valentinian passed an anti-Manichaean edict in 372.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WQq ... an&f=false
Manichees were vulnerable as a foreign subversive group.
Augustine became a Manichee hearer in 372 the date of the edict by Valens and Valentinian.

Andrew Criddle

andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:48 am

Irish1975 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:03 am There were no "heretics" before the emperors imposed laws of religion on the general population. The abuse of the term hairesis in theological polemic prior to 380 CE is not evidence of a social reality.

The young Augustine was no heretic during the seven years that he studied with the Manichaeans. That was before the promulgation of Cunctos Populos. That young man only became a heretic retrospectively, in the mind of the wretched old autobiographer.

The very idea of heresy is parasitic on the concept of orthodox subjects of emperors and bishops (who are orthodox by definition).

Manichaeanism was illegal before 380 CE.

If we set aside the ferocious edict of Diocletian which seems to have become void shortly after his abdication, Valens and Valentinian passed an anti-Manichaean edict in 372.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WQq ... an&f=false
Manichees were vulnerable as a foreign subversive group.
Augustine became a Manichee hearer in 372 the date of the edict by Valens and Valentinian.

Andrew Criddle

Looks like an interesting book.

My statement was a recollection of something I had read in Jason BeDuhn’s 2-volume biography of Augustine—which I do not have in my possession. BeDuhn is distinctly skeptical of Augustine’s account of his motives for converting from Manichaeanism to Christianity, or at least suggests that there was a political component to the decision that is not mentioned. I suppose the question about what you have asserted concerns how the edict by Valens and Valentinian was promulgated and enforced in the African province in the 370s. But I certainly don’t have a historian’s knowledge of that time.

maryhelena wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:47 am

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:34 am To be clear, I do not recall referring to mary nor to anyone else here as a heretic.

Actually, I'm more than happy to call myself a heretic......

My surprise detector didn't even wiggle
Maybe it needs recalibrating

davidmartin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:50 am

maryhelena wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:47 am

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:34 am To be clear, I do not recall referring to mary nor to anyone else here as a heretic.

Actually, I'm more than happy to call myself a heretic......

My surprise detector didn't even wiggle
Maybe it needs recalibrating

maryhelena wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:11 am

davidmartin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:50 am

maryhelena wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:47 am

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:34 am To be clear, I do not recall referring to mary nor to anyone else here as a heretic.

Actually, I'm more than happy to call myself a heretic......

My surprise detector didn't even wiggle
Maybe it needs recalibrating

“Heresy is the eternal dawn, the morning star, the glittering herald of the day. Heresy is the last and best thought. It is the perpetual New World, the unknown sea, toward which the brave all sail. It is the eternal horizon of progress.
Heresy extends the hospitalities of the brain to a new thought.
Heresy is a cradle; orthodoxy, a coffin.”

― Robert G. Ingersoll, Heretics and Heresies: From 'The Gods and Other Lectures'

Beautiful.
That's exactly why Thomas loves the one sheep now than the 99: because it goes astray

The fertile soil is not to be found on The Path. Nor on the Rock of Judaism. Nor among the Egyptian acacias, the trees of their gods. It is only found by the process of creation, by bringing forth of and from your own

The Repose of the Dead, that the disciples inquire after? Thomas tells them that it has come already, and that they just don't know it. They're right inside it, of course - religiots...

Go astray, be a heretic, reject the status quo, the orthodox, the stale, the dead

mlinssen wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:25 am

maryhelena wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:11 am

davidmartin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:50 am

maryhelena wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:47 am

StephenGoranson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:34 am To be clear, I do not recall referring to mary nor to anyone else here as a heretic.

Actually, I'm more than happy to call myself a heretic......

My surprise detector didn't even wiggle
Maybe it needs recalibrating

“Heresy is the eternal dawn, the morning star, the glittering herald of the day. Heresy is the last and best thought. It is the perpetual New World, the unknown sea, toward which the brave all sail. It is the eternal horizon of progress.
Heresy extends the hospitalities of the brain to a new thought.
Heresy is a cradle; orthodoxy, a coffin.”

― Robert G. Ingersoll, Heretics and Heresies: From 'The Gods and Other Lectures'

Beautiful.
That's exactly why Thomas loves the one sheep now than the 99: because it goes astray

The fertile soil is not to be found on The Path. Nor on the Rock of Judaism. Nor among the Egyptian acacias, the trees of their gods. It is only found by the process of creation, by bringing forth of and from your own

The Repose of the Dead, that the disciples inquire after? Thomas tells them that it has come already, and that they just don't know it. They're right inside it, of course - religiots...

Go astray, be a heretic, reject the status quo, the orthodox, the stale, the dead

Yep, the need to think the unthinkable. Sometimes one has to stop and stare - what's in front of one can indeed be unthinkable.....