Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

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Giuseppe
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Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

Post by Giuseppe »

Papias says that Mark wrote what Peter had reported, i.e. de facto, the Gospel of Peter.

Hence, the Gospel of Peter came to be known, after Papias, as Gospel of Mark.

Since the first feature of the apocryphal Gospel of Peter is a crucifixion by only Jews, then the fact that Mark is connected with Peter may mean that in this early version of Mark, known by Papias, Pilate was never mentioned.


The Original Passion in Proto-Mark, once removed any reference to Pilate, may be similar to this:

[53] And they led Jesus to the high priest; and all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes were assembled.
[54] And Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest; and he was sitting with the guards, and warming himself at the fire.
[55] Now the chief priests and the whole council sought testimony against Jesus to put him to death; but they found none.
[56] For many bore false witness against him, and their witness did not agree.
[57] And some stood up and bore false witness against him, saying,
[58] “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.'”
[59] Yet not even so did their testimony agree.

[65] And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to strike him, saying to him, “Prophesy!” And the guards received him with blows.

[20] And when they had mocked him,

they led him out to crucify him.

[21] And they compelled a passer-by, Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to carry his cross.

[22] And they brought him to the place called Golgotha (which means the place of a skull).
[23] And they offered him wine mingled with myrrh; but he did not take it.
[24] And they crucified him, and divided his garments among them, casting lots for them, to decide what each should take.



[29] And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads, and saying, “Aha! You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days,
[30] save yourself, and come down from the cross!”

[34] And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
[35] And some of the bystanders hearing it said, “Behold, he is calling Elijah.”
[36] And one ran and, filling a sponge full of vinegar, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, “Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down.”
[37] And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

Post by Giuseppe »

The denial of Peter may be added later to discredit the same original witness, by Peter, of only one trial: the Jewish trial.

Note that the same denial of Peter implies that an entire night is passed (the cock crowed still!) and so Jesus is read to undergo a Roman trial the day after.

Hence, if you remove Pilate from Mark, accordingly you have to remove the denial of Peter also.
yakovzutolmai
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Re: Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

Post by yakovzutolmai »

Giuseppe wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:54 am [21] And they compelled a passer-by, Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to carry his cross.
What do you think are the chances the "Gospel of Peter" is the "Gospel of Simon bar Giora"? Which was written by sorrowful Jewish Messianists in Rome on the occasion of Simon's flight off the Tarpeian Rock, because they blamed the party of Pharisees and Jews generally for the persecution of their martyrs from Theudas to James to Simon?

Then, Tiberius Alexander (Pilate) arrives with Titus and the Herodians in Rome about five years later, and they rewrite the Gospel of Peter and invert it from a Gnostic text to an anti-Gnostic, pro-Roman text?

Sorry, to clarify, the Gospel of Peter would have been about Simon Peter's crucifixion after the Jewish Revolt, then his later execution at Rome. The Gospel of Mark added Pilate, made Jesus the subject of crucifixion, added Barabbas, and had Simon recast as "of Cyrene". Thus it also adds Peter's denials.
yakovzutolmai
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Re: Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

Post by yakovzutolmai »

yakovzutolmai wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 am What do you think are the chances the "Gospel of Peter" is the "Gospel of Simon bar Giora"? Which was written by sorrowful Jewish Messianists in Rome on the occasion of Simon's flight off the Tarpeian Rock, because they blamed the party of Pharisees and Jews generally for the persecution of their martyrs from Theudas to James to Simon?
Second Treatise of the Great Seth (via wiki)
Second Treatise of the Great Seth is an apocryphal Gnostic writing discovered in the Codex VII of the Nag Hammadi codices and dates to around the third century. The author is unknown, and the Seth referenced in the title appears nowhere in the text. Instead Seth is thought to reference the third son of Adam and Eve to whom gnosis was first revealed, according to some gnostics. The author appears to belong to a group of gnostics who maintain that Jesus Christ was not crucified on the cross. Instead the text says that Simon of Cyrene was mistaken for Jesus and crucified in his place. Jesus is described as standing by and "laughing at their ignorance."
I can see a "Gospel of Simon Cephas" where the Jews crucify Peter as the messiah when "Jesus bar Abbas" is ignored by them because they don't have the gnosis to see the true messiah. Squarely pinning this "Gospel of Peter" as both Gnostic, and partially historical post-70 AD.

Then, as you theorize, later Pilate is added and Jesus himself is crucified.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

Post by Giuseppe »

yakovzutolmai wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:23 am

What do you think are the chances the "Gospel of Peter" is the "Gospel of Simon bar Giora"?
Indeed, Greg Doudna thinks that Simon bar Giora is both Peter and Simon Magus. He was seen by Paul when he, as the Herodian gangster/diplomatic Saul, went to Jerusalem to talk with the chiefs of the Revolt (=the Pillars). The result of the negotiations was a nothing de facto: Peter (=Simon bar Giora) claimed supremacy on the Jews, and Paul had to be content with preaching to the Gentiles. Which means (for Paul as diplomatic in the service of Rome): war.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Papias connects Peter with Mark for a reason

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About Barabbas, a conclusion I have never abandoned from the first time I have read this great article:

https://vridar.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... r_engl.pdf

...that Barabbas is a Jewish-Christian attack against the marcionite Son of Father.
The episode betrayes the presence of an old anti-demiurgist resistance against the reduction of Jesus to the Jewish Messiah.
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