Evidence of a John the Baptist connected (via Apollos) with the original Book of Revelation
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:53 am
I have only made 2 + 2.
So Roger Parvus:
https://vridar.org/2014/03/31/a-simonia ... ntroversy/
And so Earl Doherty:
https://www.jesuspuzzle.com/jesuspuzzle/supp01.htm
Hence:
John the Baptist's ipsissima verba appear in Book of Revelation.
It was expected, then, as natural reaction against John the Baptist:
So Roger Parvus:
If this was the theme of the Corinthian wisdom, it would explain too the Apostle’s building imagery in 1 Cor. 3:10-17 and the way he lays it out. For we know from Revelation that some Christians expected God both to provide a new and magnificent earthly Jerusalem and to dwell therein: “I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold, the dwelling of God with men’” (Rev. 21:3). It was prophesied that the twelve gates of the city will be made from twelve pearls (Rev. 21:21). Prophesied too that the city walls will be made of jasper and pure gold (Rev. 21:18), and that the foundations of the walls will be decorated with every precious stone. Rev. 21:19-20 lists the twelve kinds of precious stone that will be used. On the foundations the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb will be inscribed (Rev. 21:14). To me it is plausible that Simon/Paul had this kind of prophetic wisdom in view when he warned that the only foundation is Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 3:11) and surmised that building on it with “gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay or straw” (1 Cor. 3:12) may be wasted effort. The Apostle’s words, “Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (1 Cor. 3:16)” would be a counter thrust to any prophecy like that in Rev. 21:3 where it is foretold that God will dwell in “the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven” (Rev. 21:3).
In fact, some have proposed that the most extensive personal contribution the author of Revelation made to the work was its first three chapters (1:1-3:22) and its conclusion (22:6-21). And interestingly enough, those parts may have been written with an awareness of the issues discussed in the central section of 1 Corinthians; marriage to unbelievers, for instance, and the eating of food that had been sacrificed to idols. Dale B. Martin writes: “It is entirely possible, as surprising as it may be for modern Christians, that Revelation was written, at least in part, to condemn a form of Pauline Christianity existing in western Asia Minor at the end of the first century. Those are the kind of comfortable Christians John wants to afflict. (New Testament History and Literature, p. 357)
Note that I am not suggesting that the book of Revelation had already been written by the 50s. It obviously wasn’t, since its visions about Nero redivivus point at least to a date of composition after his death in 68 CE. What I am suggesting is that the community from which the Revelation prophecies emanated was already in existence in the 50s and that already at least some of its members were prophesying an end-time reign of Christ on earth. Many mainstream scholars agree that the author of Revelation brought older oracles into his work and incorporated some of them with little or no alteration.
In fact, some have proposed that the most extensive personal contribution the author of Revelation made to the work was its first three chapters (1:1-3:22) and its conclusion (22:6-21). And interestingly enough, those parts may have been written with an awareness of the issues discussed in the central section of 1 Corinthians; marriage to unbelievers, for instance, and the eating of food that had been sacrificed to idols. Dale B. Martin writes: “It is entirely possible, as surprising as it may be for modern Christians, that Revelation was written, at least in part, to condemn a form of Pauline Christianity existing in western Asia Minor at the end of the first century. Those are the kind of comfortable Christians John wants to afflict. (New Testament History and Literature, p. 357)
Note that I am not suggesting that the book of Revelation had already been written by the 50s. It obviously wasn’t, since its visions about Nero redivivus point at least to a date of composition after his death in 68 CE. What I am suggesting is that the community from which the Revelation prophecies emanated was already in existence in the 50s and that already at least some of its members were prophesying an end-time reign of Christ on earth. Many mainstream scholars agree that the author of Revelation brought older oracles into his work and incorporated some of them with little or no alteration.
https://vridar.org/2014/03/31/a-simonia ... ntroversy/
And so Earl Doherty:
From this introduction to the dispute in Corinth, Paul launches directly into his great discourse on the folly of worldly wisdom vs. God's wisdom, and it is folly in itself not to regard this discussion as directly relating to the dispute with Apollos.
https://www.jesuspuzzle.com/jesuspuzzle/supp01.htm
Hence:
John the Baptist's ipsissima verba appear in Book of Revelation.
It was expected, then, as natural reaction against John the Baptist:
- that a moderate pauline ("Mark") made John the Baptist subjected to Paul's Jesus
- that a radical pauline (Marcion) hated John the Baptist.