neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:54 am
You are not impressed, I take it, with the idea of the author arranging symbolic anecdotes in a chiastic order to bring out theological meanings -- so that he decides to place the mother at the beginning and ending of the signs, and to have her symbolic status as a woman stressed in a way that requires taking the reader attention away from her name. If this is how the end product appears is it so unlikely that the author had a purpose in arranging it this way?
We think the author had a problem with writing a decent narrative with more semblance of realism. Mothers and sons don't talk properly to each other, people are confused always about meanings, etc.... What if the author had another mindset? Realism be blowed. There is nothing in the gospel to suggest the author had any interest in realism or proper narrative. It was all about patterns, chiastic structures, number meanings, symbols.
It's a possibility, but I wouldn't call it a sure thing. It's one among several possibilities. But the introduction of Lazarus and Mary in John 11 is also very strange. It appears as if we should already know about them, like this is just part of some larger story in which those characters should already have been introduced: "11:3 So the sisters sent word to Him, saying, 'Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.'"
These are literally the first words spoken by Mary to Jesus in John. That seems very off-base. Then we are told: "11:5 (Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister, and Lazarus.) 6 So when He heard that he was sick, He then stayed two days longer in the place where He was."
This sounds like someone is filling in backstory that should have been made known though some part of a narrative that is missing.
As it is in GJohn, the very first time we hear about Mary and Lazarus we know nothing about them, but are told that Jesus loves them, and not just that he loves them, but that he has a special relationship with them. Where id this come from? How to Martha and Mary know to send word to Jesus? Why do they call him Lord when they have never met him before? How do they know that Jesus loves Lazarus?
The typical Christian answers are simply that Jesus loved everyone and that his reputation preceded him, but this obviously makes no real sense. Clearly, this is part of some story in which Jesus has already met Mary, Martha and Lazarus. Something is missing.
The only Gospels that mention Martha and Lazarus are Luke and John. Luke, of course, is derived from Marcion's Gospel, so it seems that there may have been some narrative about Mary, Martha and Lazarus floating around in Marcionite circles and derivatives of Marcionism.
I'm going to start a new thread to explore the issue of Jesus familial relations.