Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Ken Olson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:17 am I'm assuming that MacEwen is measuring popularity by (1) the number of of early manuscripts or fragments attesting to the gospel and (2) the number of times it is quoted by early Christians.

Ken Olson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:17 am

gryan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:17 am Re: "The Gospel of Matthew quickly became the most popular synoptic Gospel"

MacEWEN made a point of this during his closing statement. Is this evidence that it was written last? I suspect it is so.

Thesis: The last written synoptic Gospel was the most appreciated because the author knew his intended audience better. For example, perhaps he knew the Samaritan stories were disliked, and so omitted them. On the other hand, perhaps he also knew that James the Lord's blood brother had a growing fan following, and so he added that bit from Mark which Luke had omitted--minus the "lesser" put-down.

This is circular. It has some internal coherence, but is not backed up by facts outside itself.

1) Matthew was the most popular synoptic gospel in the early centuries (fact, or presumably so).

2) Matthew does not have stories with Samaritans in them and mentions Samaritans only once (fact).

3) This should be explained by postulating that Matthew was the latest synoptic gospel and knew that Samaritan stories were unpopular (baseless speculation).

I say this is a baseless speculation because you have not shown that Matthew was the most popular synoptic gospel *because* it has no Samaritan stories, nor that there is a direct relationship between a gospel's popularity and it not having Samaritan stories. Other factors regarding popularity might be (I think probably are) more important. I'm assuming that MacEwen is measuring popularity by (1) the number of of early manuscripts or fragments attesting to the gospel and (2) the number of times it is quoted by early Christians. It's not really clear to me exactly what he would mean by quickly.

Mark has 0 mentions of Samaritans and is the least popular synoptic gospel, Matthew has 1 mention and is the most popular synoptic, Luke has 4 mentions of Samaria/Samaritans and is less popular than Matthew, but more than Mark. John is not a synoptic gospel, but has 8 mentions of Samaria/Samaritans, and is witnessed in a a few more early (by 300 CE) manuscripts/fragments than Matthew and rivals Matthew in outside citations (I don't have exact numbers).

I do not believe you have presented any evidence that Samaritans stories were unpopular or made the gospels which contained them unpopular.

schillingklaus wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:23 am
... as denied deceptively by Kreuzerin.

robert j wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:32 am

schillingklaus wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:23 am
... as denied deceptively by Kreuzerin.

Fuck you schillingklaus. Whether one might agree with KK's opinions or not, KK is among the most intellectually honest of participants in this forum.

Irish1975 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:58 am

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:45 am The question is whether or not Irenaeus and his gang reduced the number of options from the previous generation, reduced them down to Mark through John. If they did, this question of Matthean posterity or Markan priority takes on a whole different perspective.

Similarly, if the 4-Gospel Book evolved over a period of time (e.g. 150—250 CE), each Gospel being massaged and re-edited in light of the others, then we really shouldn’t expect to be able to order them chronologically; at least not without many caveats. All we have are 3rd/4th century manuscripts and later.

Ken Olson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:16 am
Both scholars accept the theory of Markan priority. I suspect there won't be a much discussion of Marcion (unless Berman sees questions on Marcion in the live chat and asks them about it).

Best,

Ken

Ken Olson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 5:16 am Mark Goodacre and Robert MacEwen will debate 'Which Gospel Came Second?' on Jacob Berman's History Valley YouTube channel this Friday, October 28.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE5UOisT8AY

Goodacre, of course, will argue for the Farrer theory (the synoptic gospels were written in the order Mark-Matthew-Luke), while MacEwen will argue for the Wilke Hypothesis (AKA the Matthean posteriority hypothesis, that the synoptics were written in the order Mark-Luke-Matthew).

Both scholars accept the theory of Markan priority. I suspect there won't be a much discussion of Marcion (unless Berman sees questions on Marcion in the live chat and asks them about it).

Best,

Ken