Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-19 than we thought)

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gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

gryan wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:13 am 2 Cor 11:32
In Damascus the ethnarch under Aretas the king was guarding the city of the Damascenes in order to seize me, and I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and so escaped his hands.

Gal 1:15-17
"...when God... decided to reveal his son in me... I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, nor did I [immediately] go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I [immediately] departed to Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus."

According this reading of Gal, to depart or return [ἀπέρχομαι] "to Arabia" and to return back again [ὑποστρέφω] "to Damascus" are two ways of describing one and the same return (from where, he does not say) to one and the same place, i.e. Damascus, Arabia [where "the ethnarch under Aretas" would later, or had already tried to "seize" him].
Re: to depart or return [ἀπέρχομαι] "to Arabia"

The word ἀπέρχομαι ordinarily means "depart" but it can also mean "return" if context suggests a return, and this context is supplied by what follows: "...indeed, I returned again to Damascus."

This reading suggests that the Galatians had already "heard" about Paul's previous activities in Damascus, and so he did not have to say explicitly that he had been in Damascus before:

Gal 1:13-14 ESV
"For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers."

------------

If, as the flow of thought in Galatians would suggest, the audience had already heard that it was in Damascus (located on edge of Arabia) that Paul had been "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries", it would fit for them to understand a "departure" (to Arabia) as synonymous with "return" (to Damascus).
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gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

The "flesh and blood" logic puzzle pieces fit together like this:

1) If "flesh and blood" ="James, the Lord's brother" (as my chastic reading of Gal 1:16b-19 below suggests) and 2) If "flesh and blood" is defined by the parallel Pauline usage in 1 Cor 15 ("Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable"), then 3) James was the perishable brother of the imperishable Lord.

A. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
B. nor did I [immediately] go up to Jerusalem to the apostles before me,
C. but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus.
B. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to make acquaintance with Cephas, and I remained with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no different one [ἕτερον, Cf ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον]
A. except James, the Lord’s brother...
Last edited by gryan on Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
StephenGoranson
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by StephenGoranson »

Without venturing an opinion on the OP, perhaps (if you have not already) check:

Rainer Riesner, Paul's Early Period... 1998, 13.3 Paul in Arabia (included page 257 in google books advanced, though previews vary).

H. Bietenhard, Die syrische Dekapolis von Pompeius bis Trajan, 220-261 especially 227-230, in Aufstieg und Niedergang der Roemischen Welt II, Bd. 8, 1977.
gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:06 am Rainer Riesner, Paul's Early Period... 1998, 13.3 Paul in Arabia (included page 257 in google books advanced, though previews vary).
Thanks! Of particular interest for my thesis, Riesner reports that "Justin includes Damascus in Arabia (Justin, Dial. 78.10), and is followed by Tertullian (Tertullian adv. Jud. 9: Adv. Marc. 3.13)."

Unfortunately, I cannot read German, but correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that Bietenhard is oblivious to the exegetical possibility I am seeing: "but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus (εἰς Δαμασκόν, Cf Acts 22:10, "go εἰς Δαμασκό" and Acts 9:8 "they brought him εἰς Δαμασκόν").
gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

Re: the "returned again (πάλιν ὑπέστρεψα)" in "but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus (εἰς Δαμασκόν, Cf Acts 22:10, "go εἰς Δαμασκό" and Acts 9:8 "they brought him εἰς Δαμασκόν").

In the Acts account, Paul was already headed toward Damascus (εἰς Δαμασκό) with official papers addressed to leaders living there when, on the road, he experienced his revelation. It is not a strain on the story of Acts IMHO to assume that Paul had been to Damascus before, and that he was therefore implicitly "returning" to Damascus when he saw the light (since the Acts story does not make such a previous time in Damascus explicit, it is possible, reading the Acts account alone, to suppose erroneously IMHO that Paul had not been to Damascus before.)

Acts 22:5, ESV
"...as the high priest and the whole council of elders can bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brothers, and I journeyed toward Damascus (εἰς Δαμασκό) to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished."

In Galatians, we are told explicitly that Paul was "returning" to Damascus, but since there was no previous mention of Damascus explicitly in the letter, I think the best guess is that the audience had already "heard" about it in considerable detail: "For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it" (Gal 1:19).

Apparently, Paul was "returning again" to Damascus, Arabia where he had "persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it" (ESV), but now he was on the opposite side of the religious conflict going on there.
gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

gryan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:25 am The "flesh and blood" logic puzzle pieces fit together like this:

1) If "flesh and blood" ="James, the Lord's brother" (as my chastic reading of Gal 1:16b-19 below suggests) and 2) If "flesh and blood" is defined by the parallel Pauline usage in 1 Cor 15 ("Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable"), then 3) James was the perishable brother of the imperishable Lord.

A. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
B. nor did I [immediately] go up to Jerusalem to the apostles before me,
C. but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus.
B. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to make acquaintance with Cephas, and I remained with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no different one [ἕτερον, Cf ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον]
A. except James, the Lord’s brother...
Re: Gal 1:20 I assure you before God that what I am writing to you is no lie.
What was Paul not lying about?

Gal Ch. 1

10Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men?
If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
11For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man.
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

A. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
B. nor did I [immediately] go up to Jerusalem to the apostles before me,
C. but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus.
B. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to make acquaintance with Cephas, and I remained with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no different one [ἕτερον, Cf ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον]
A. except James, the Lord’s brother...

20I assure you before God that what I am writing to you is no lie.

-------------------
By mirror reading, this is the counter-claim Paul is opposing and not lying about:

Paul's mission began on the basis of consultation with James the Lord's brother (flesh-and-blood presumptive heir) as well as meetings with Jesus's brother's subordinates, the other apostles in Jerusalem. Subsequently, Paul went on mission to places like Damascus. Jesus's brother and the other apostles (in that order of human, i.e. flesh-and-blood based authority) taught Paul about the righteousness path of Jesus, and Paul is still preaching the gospel that they taught him (Cf 5:11, he is "still preaching circumcision").
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia?

Post by GakuseiDon »

gryan wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:09 amIt seems to me that the best place to get a sense of what Paul himself meant by "flesh and blood" is his own usage:

1 Cor 15:50
Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

-------------------

If Paul was referring to James the Lord's brother as "flesh and blood" in the 1 Cor sense, as I think he was, he was implying a contrast between the perishable bond of natural brother relations and the imperishable blond of "brother" relations in the kingdom of God. And it is based on the literary context in Galatians read as a literary unity (chiastic structure, grammar and sense etc) that this is what I think Paul was doing. Paul is saying that James the Lord's brother is a brother in the perishable sense (i.e. "according to the flesh"), in contrast to the those in the audience who are brothers of Jesus in the imperishable sense (i.e. "brothers in the pattern of Isaac, children of promise", Gal 4:21-31).
Since I think a historical Jesus is the best explanation for the earliest layer of texts that we have, and that James was indeed a blood brother of Jesus, it is too easy for me to agree with your idea! So let me play Devil's advocate.

It's hard for me to see a deeper meaning to "flesh and blood" in 1 Cor 1:50. To me, Paul is stressing the difference between the spirit and the flesh. That might well be a reference to the spiritual bond of brotherhood vs the fleshly bond specific to James as you suggest; but Paul does seem to be speaking generally there. It's hard for me to see a specific reference to a brother/brothers of Jesus.
gryan wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:09 amInitially, Paul "consulted" with James in that he showed respect for his wisdom and presented himself as lesser; however, in retrospect, he had come to view James's blood relationship with Jesus as perishable one rather than an eternal one.
I definitely agree there. Paul's revelation from Christ trumps any blood relationship of James to Jesus. The whole "spirit vs flesh" theme that Paul has demands it. I see Paul's interactions with James and Peter as being all about business, not religion.
gryan wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:09 amAs I read Galatians, Paul was setting up a contrast of two models: The place to look for the ongoing model of "the life of Jesus" worthy of imitation was not in his "flesh and blood" brother of Jesus but, "in the flesh" of the co-crucified apostle who had, after his third heaven ascent experienced a "thorn in the flesh". Metaphorically, I interpret the blindness of Saul in Acts as Paul's "thorn in the flesh/eyes." The Paul of Galatians/Corinthians claimed to enflesh the meaning of the revealed teaching of the Lord which was given to him in direct, healing response to his prayer for deliverance from the "thorn": "My grace suffices you, for the power is perfected in weakness."

Thoughts?
It's just too neat, I'm afraid! I'd like it to be true, but to me Paul's usage in each case seems to refer to humans generally. That said, I have no knowledge at all of the ancient languages, and have only read things in English translation. So any opinion from me on the topic isn't worth too much.

However, I'm sure there have been a lot of scholars who would also have liked it to be true. If no-one else has picked up on the idea of Paul referring to James when he used "didn't consult with flesh-and-blood", then I'd think it means the case for such a reading isn't too strong.

Still, a fascinating idea!
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by GakuseiDon »

gryan wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:21 pmGal Ch. 1[/b]
10Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men?
If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
11For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man.
12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

A. I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
B. nor did I [immediately] go up to Jerusalem to the apostles before me,
C. but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus.
B. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to make acquaintance with Cephas, and I remained with him fifteen days. But, of the apostles, I saw no different one [ἕτερον, Cf ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον]
A. except James, the Lord’s brother...
Not that I think your case on the meaning of "flesh and blood=James" is particularly strong, BUT:

If you are right, then this whole section might be reread as a criticism against James and his group. Gal 1:10 "Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men?" In other words: approval from James, or from God?

Also: "If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ." In other words: If Paul was still trying to please James and his group, then Paul wouldn't be a servant of Christ.

In fact, even if you're wrong, it might still be read that way. And you're right about it being a mystery about what Paul claims he isn't lying about.
gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

@ GakuseiDon

Your comments are much appreciated. I'm pondering.
gryan
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Re: Was Damascus in Arabia? (Maybe Acts is more harmonious with Gal 1:15-17 than we thought)

Post by gryan »

gryan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:28 am "but I [immediately] departed into Arabia; indeed, I returned again to Damascus (εἰς Δαμασκόν, Gal 1:17, Cf Acts 22:10, "go εἰς Δαμασκό" and Acts 9:8 "they brought him εἰς Δαμασκόν").
Re: Justin Martyr and Turtullian say Damascus was in Arabia

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR
DIALOGUE WITH TRYPHO

CHAPTER LXXVIII -- HE PROVES THAT THIS PROPHECY HARMONIZES WITH CHRIST ALONE, FROM WHAT IS AFTERWARDS WRITTEN.

"Now this king Herod, at the time when the Magi came to him from Arabia, and said they knew from a star which appeared in the heavens that a King had been born in your country, and that they had come to worship Him, learned from the elders of your people that it was thus written regarding Bethlehem in the prophet: 'And thou, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, art by no means least among the princes of Judah; for out of thee shall go forth the leader who shall feed my people.' Accordingly the Magi from Arabia came to Bethlehem and worshipped the Child, and presented Him with gifts, gold and frankincense, and myrrh; but returned not to Herod, being warned in a revelation after worshipping the Child in Bethlehem. And Joseph, the spouse of Mary, who wished at first to put away his betrothed Mary, supposing her to be pregnant by intercourse with a man, i.e., from fornication, was commanded in a vision not to put away his wife; and the angel who appeared to him told him that what is in her womb is of the Holy Ghost. Then he was afraid, and did not put her away; but on the occasion of the first census which was taken in Jud a, under Cyrenius, he went up from Nazareth, where he lived, to Bethlehem, to which he belonged, to be enrolled; for his family was of the tribe of Judah, which then inhabited that region. Then along with Mary he is ordered to proceed into Egypt, and remain there with the Child until another revelation warn them to return into Jud a. But when the Child was born in Bethlehem, since Joseph could not find a lodging in that village, he took up his quarters in a certain cave near the village; and while they were there Mary brought forth the Christ and placed Him in a manger, and here the Magi who came from Arabia found Him. I have repeated to you," I continued, "what Isaiah foretold about the sign which foreshadowed the cave; but for the sake of those who have come with us to-day, I shall again remind you of the passage." Then I repeated the passage from Isaiah which I have already written, adding that, by means of those words, those who presided over the mysteries of Mithras were stirred up by the devil to say that in a place, called among them a cave, they were initiated by him. "So Herod, when the Magi from Arabia did not return to him, as he had asked them to do, but had departed by another way to their own country, according to the commands laid on them; and when Joseph, with Mary and the Child, had now gone into Egypt, as it was revealed to them to do; as he did not know the Child whom the Magi had gone to worship, ordered simply the whole of the children then in Bethlehem to be massacred. And Jeremiah prophesied that this would happen, speaking by the Holy Ghost thus: 'A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and much wailing, Rachel weeping for her children; and she would not be comforted, because they are not.' Therefore, on account of the voice which would be heard from Ramah, i.e., from Arabia(for there is in Arabia at this very time a place called Rama), wailing would come on the place where Rachel the wife of Jacob called lsrael, the holy patriarch, has been buried, i.e., on Bethlehem; while the women weep for their own slaughtered children, and have no consolation by reason of what has happened to them. For that expression of Isaiah 'He shall take the power of Damascus and spoils of Samaria,' foretold that the power of the evil demon that dwelt in Damascus should be overcome by Christ as soon as He was born; and this is proved to have happened. For the Magi, who were held in bondage for the commission of all evil deeds through the power of that demon, by coming to worship Christ, shows that they have revolted from that dominion which held them captive; and this[dominion] the Scripture has showed us to reside in Damascus. Moreover, that sinful and unjust power is termed well in parable, Samaria. And none of you can deny that Damascus was, and is, in the region of Arabia, although now it belongs to what is called Syrophoenicia. Hence it would be becoming for you, sirs, to learn what you have not perceived, from those who have received grace from God, namely, from us Christians; and not to strive in every way to maintain your own doctrines, dishonouring those of God. Therefore also this grace has been transferred to us, as Isaiah says, speaking to the following effect: 'This people draws near to Me, they honour Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me; but in vain they worship Me, teaching the commands and doctrines of men. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to remove this people, and I shall remove them; and I shall take away the wisdom of their wise men, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent men.' "
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... rypho.html

Tertullian adv. Jud. 9
...as it says through Zechariah: And Judah keeps guard at Jerusalem, and shall amass all the vigour of the surrounding peoples, gold and silver. For of this gift of gold David likewise says, And to Him shall be given of the gold of Arabia; and again, The kings of the Arabs and Saba shall bring Him gifts. For the East, on the one hand, generally held the magi (to be) kings; and Damascus, on the other hand, used formerly to be reckoned to Arabia before it was transferred into Syrophœnicia on the division of the Syrias: the power whereof Christ then received in receiving its ensigns — gold, to wit, and odours.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0308.htm

Tertullian Adv. Marc. 3.13
Moreover, respecting that gift of gold, David also says: And there shall be given to Him of the gold of Arabia; and again: The kings of Arabia and Saba shall offer to Him gifts. For the East generally regarded the magi as kings; and Damascus was anciently deemed to belong to Arabia, before it was transferred to Syrophœnicia on the division of the Syrias (by Rome). Its riches Christ then received, when He received the tokens thereof in the gold and spices; while the spoils of Samaria were the magi themselves.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03123.htm

Thanks to StephenGoranson for pointing me toward this: "The Geographic Designation 'Arabia'" (p. 256f in Paul's Early Period, By Rainer Riesner · 1998, Google books). Riener assumes, with the IMHO mistaken scholarly concensus, that Gal 1:17 refers to a "return again" to Damascus from another, perhaps nearby place called "Arabia". Nevertheless, he referenced these contrary geographic reckonings asserted by Justin and Tertullian.

Justin and Turtillian were both explicit in asserting that, at the time of the birth of Jesus, Damascus was in Arabia. Would they not also agree that Damascus was in Arabia at the time of Paul's vision when, as I read Gal 1:16-17, Paul immediately "returned again" to Damascus, Arabia? I'll assume so unless shown otherwise.
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