the Gospel of Philip says 'Chrestian' most of the time, whereas every translation says 'Christian'

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andrewcriddle
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Re: Gospel of Philip: IS, IHS, XS, XRS alone (and then some)

Post by andrewcriddle »

ebion wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:05 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:48 am The translation used is that of the late Thomas Paterson Brown:
you say "the late Thomas Paterson Brown"

What info do you have on him, or his passing?

I love his gospels of Phillip and Thomas and was trying to contact him. without any luck.
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
The Metalogos Index. The creator of this site, Dr. Thomas Paterson Brown, died in 2012; the materials he collected on his internet site are, however, still being made available. His translations of the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, and other Valentinian writings are provided in English and Spanish, along with commentaries, notes, and other resources. As an independent scholar, Dr. Brown worked for decades on this material.
Andrew Criddle
ebion
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Re: Gospel of Philip: IS, IHS, XS, XRS alone (and then some)

Post by ebion »

andrewcriddle wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:46 am
ebion wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:05 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:48 am The translation used is that of the late Thomas Paterson Brown:
I love his gospels of Phillip and Thomas and was trying to contact him. without any luck.
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
The Metalogos Index. The creator of this site, Dr. Thomas Paterson Brown, died in 2012; the materials he collected on his internet site are, however, still being made available. His translations of the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, and other Valentinian writings are provided in English and Spanish, along with commentaries, notes, and other resources. As an independent scholar, Dr. Brown worked for decades on this material.
Thank-you Andrew I missed that, or it;s been updated since I last looked.

I only recently came across his work, and loved his translations, and the way he linked gThomas and gPhillip back to the gospels. I'm saddened by his loss.

His entire work is downlodable from https://archive.org/details/Metagosp/
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: Gospel of Philip: IS, IHS, XS, XRS alone (and then some)

Post by Leucius Charinus »

ebion wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:08 am
andrewcriddle wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:46 am
ebion wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:05 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:48 am The translation used is that of the late Thomas Paterson Brown:
I love his gospels of Phillip and Thomas and was trying to contact him. without any luck.
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
The Metalogos Index. The creator of this site, Dr. Thomas Paterson Brown, died in 2012; the materials he collected on his internet site are, however, still being made available. His translations of the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, and other Valentinian writings are provided in English and Spanish, along with commentaries, notes, and other resources. As an independent scholar, Dr. Brown worked for decades on this material.
Thank-you Andrew I missed that, or it;s been updated since I last looked.

I only recently came across his work, and loved his translations, and the way he linked gThomas and gPhillip back to the gospels. I'm saddened by his loss.

His entire work is downlodable from https://archive.org/details/Metagosp/
There is also this:
https://www.metalogos.org/

metalog.org has been fully restored to its state of May 6th 2012 by Martijn Linssen - there will be anachronisms here and there, which are purposely left untouched, save for some text marked as deleted. The site was created by the late Thomas Paterson Brown

ebion
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Re: Gospel of Philip: IS, IHS, XS, XRS alone (and then some)

Post by ebion »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:32 am
mlinssen wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:48 am The translation used is that of the late Thomas Paterson Brown:

metalog.org has been fully restored to its state of May 6th 2012 by Martijn Linssen - there will be anachronisms here and there, which are purposely left untouched, save for some text marked as deleted. The site was created by the late Thomas Paterson Brown

As in mlinssen of earlywritings.com fame (I'm new here)? Martin if you didn't get a PM from me, please PM me. I sent you one but it ended up in my Outbox and I can't figure out how to resend it.

Thanks Pete - I've done a lot of work on his gThomas and gPhillip and include them in my Early Christian Ebionaen Canon.
ebion
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Re: the Gospel of Philip has both 'Chrestian' and 'Christian' - the PeshittA has only Anointed One

Post by ebion »

I'm just coming up to speed with your work, so this may be naive, but let me put it up anyway.

As a preface, let me agree with the observation that "they" have been lying to us since Nicea at least (and saying nothing), and we have to dig through their layers of lies and frauds, and not be quiet; there's just no end to Churchunists falsifying sources.

There are 2 parts to the problem: the Greek texts and the Coptic texts.

gPhillip shows that both Chrest and Christ are in play, so it's not just either/or. A simple working hypothesis for the Coptic, is this simple unbuttressed assertion:
In the Hellenistic Mysteries, presumably the Eleusinian Mysteries but perhaps others as well, a ‘chrestos’ was a neophyte and a ‘christos’ an initiate.
gPhillip gives more details, whatever they mean:
72. A XRηSTI]ANOS becomes a XRS (Jewish/Aramaic Messiah) after the Chrism – after the anointment of the fullness in the power of the cross, which the Apostles call: the right with the left. We are anointed by the apostles. (102)

101/102/103. We are called XRISTIANOS from the Chrism (anointing oil) not from the baptising. He was called the XS – Greek “Anointed” because of the Chrism. We are anointed by the apostles. Sovereignty of the Heavens! 103. Some attain this laughing. The XRηSTIANOS [...] came forth as master over everything, because (the Baptism) was not a game, but rather he disdained this [changing world for] the Sovereignty of the Heavens.
So in the Coptic we have a simple buttressed working hypothesis.

But the Greek is tampered with because of not consulting the PeshittA. Unless you can solve the Howlers and Bloopers, the Greek is too flawed to be fit to be used. And this problem goes away in the PeshittA - it's all the Anointed One.

Then we can look at how much gPhillip has to say about annointing...

That would mean tooling up for Aramaic, but the tools are good: see an example I gave of how to use them. And there's a huge advantage: there are no fragments, or text families in Aramaic - just 4-5 complete texts that that have near perfect agreement regardless of the century they date from.

If we can do without the Western Five that are not in the PeshittA (I can), we have a simple productive working hypothesis that works in Aramaic+Coptic. And now having looked at the TR Howlers and Bloopers, I get the feeling that the Greek text was added to in the translation process, a little like the Rufinized Clementines. Unlike the greek translators, who boast of their alterations, I feel the Easterners treat the texts as sacred and I'm safer in their hands.
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