Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

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Giuseppe
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Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by Giuseppe »

https://ia601503.us.archive.org/27/item ... autier.pdf


Judas is mentioned, indeed.
Only, note what precedes the first mention of Judas:

Alors, le Créateur, voyant que le Dieu bon
allait detruire sa Loi, complota contre Christ,
ne sachant pas que la mort du Bon était le salut des hommes.


Il entra dans Juda, surnommé Iscariote, qui alla conférer avec
les chefs militaires sur le moyen de le leur livrer.

Giuseppe
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by Giuseppe »

Obviously, the Synoptics have replaced the Creator with Satan as the spiritual possessor of Judas and the final istigator.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by neilgodfrey »

I have translated Wautier's reconstruction of Marcion's Gospel. Attached here for anyone interested.

Wautier - Reconstruction.pdf
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mlinssen
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by mlinssen »

neilgodfrey wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:08 pm I have translated Wautier's reconstruction of Marcion's Gospel. Attached here for anyone interested.


Wautier - Reconstruction.pdf
For someone who so very frequently uses the words "scholarly" and "academic", this is a most poor example of such: no date to it, no version number, no name at all of any author. No naming of source(s), nothing - this sits at the level of gossip and hearsay

Deplorable
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by neilgodfrey »

mlinssen wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:57 pm
neilgodfrey wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:08 pm I have translated Wautier's reconstruction of Marcion's Gospel. Attached here for anyone interested.


Wautier - Reconstruction.pdf
For someone who so very frequently uses the words "scholarly" and "academic", this is a most poor example of such: no date to it, no version number, no name at all of any author. No naming of source(s), nothing - this sits at the level of gossip and hearsay

Deplorable
Oh dear. Sorry the soup was not as expected, sir. I thought from Giuseppe's discussion of it in another thread that it was something people following the Marcion debates knew about and that I was the latecomer.

Giuseppe -- can you fill our disappointed mlinssen in, please?
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by neilgodfrey »

Or rather -- just go to the OP, sir, and you will see the French version. I have added a translation of that here for those interested in Wautier's views. I know it's not a transcription but a translation, and for that I apologize. ;-)
Giuseppe
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by Giuseppe »

Note how, even if afterall what is proposed as Marcion's Evangelion is a mere proto-Luke, Wautier's reconstruction assumes some passages where the reference to the creator as enemy of Jesus is made explicit.

In Klinghardt's and especially Vinzent's reconstruction there is not the same point made explicit.
rgprice
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by rgprice »

Would be interesting to know more about his approach. It looks like he's got several sections that he doesn't cite a source for. Is theer a book that explains this more?
Giuseppe
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by Giuseppe »

His book is published online here (not by him):

http://hierosolis.overblog.com/comment- ... a.-wautier

What I have found in absolute more interesting is the explanation about how the celestial Jesus of Paul was euhmerized via a misunderstanding of 'Capernaum' (from a name to mean the lower heavens to a name of an earthly village).
It looks like he's got several sections that he doesn't cite a source for.
what precisely?
Giuseppe
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Re: Evangelion of Marcion (as reconstructed by Wautier)

Post by Giuseppe »

Note how the original incipit of Marcion, according to Wautier (in this influenced clearly by Georges Ory) has Jesus descended in the Sheol (=="Capernaum"), freeing the souls there:

The fifteenth year of Tiberius' principate,
Christ, descended from Heaven, appeared in Capernaum.

Having taken on the appearance of a man, he
appeared 30 years old.

Cain and those who were with him ran to him
the sodomites, the Egyptians and others, all
others, all those who had been guilty of
indignities and Christ saved them.

All were struck by his teaching~,
because his word had power


But a demon called out to him:
"What have you to do with us, Jesus? You
have come to lose us".
I know who you are: the Holy One of God.

Christ rebuked him:
- "Get behind me, Satan".

Only after, the Marcionite Jesus ascended from Sheol (==Capernaum) to Bethsaida, and from there he addresses human people, not only demons:



Ascended to Bethsaida

Christ did not preach anything new there.
Then, people opposed him the saying:
Physician, heal yourself

This explains why the demons know already him (Jesus had already preached explicitly his new message in the Sheol) while he is more implicit on the earth.
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