Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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maryhelena
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by maryhelena »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:05 am
maryhelena wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:04 amthe above link does not work.... Do you have a new link?
I had only that, until time time ago.
OK... I checked the link in your OP and that link does not work as either.
------------

I remembered the name - a comment on an article I have by Bermejo-Rubio on the Bible and Interpretation website.

Comment.
Dear Fernando, I am here to say that you are not alone. We are still in the Dark Ages, but tell those who may attack you that you have others on your side as well. I am confident that within some years the entire world is going to change, no matter how strange or optimistic this may sound. I have written a PhD exactly on the same subject, regardless that my University presents a different title as my own. Reza Aslan recently and Ioannis Kordatos before him, also published books on the same subject. Kordatos worked on historical Jesus since the 20s, but his relevant 2 vols work was rejected by all publishers in Greece. His son managed to publish it 10 years after his death, by it remains unknown to most. There are more people who know, but cannot speak yet.
George Sidirountios

#10 - Sidirountios - 09/27/2013 - 11:22

Why is the Hypothesis that Jesus Was an Anti-Roman Rebel Alive and Well?
Fernando Bermejo-Rub
io

here

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maryhelena
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by maryhelena »

Comment by Greg Doudna on the above linked article by Bermejo-Rubio.

An excellent article. A little-known relevant work in this discussion is George Wesley Buchanan, _Jesus: The King and His Kingdom_ (1984), which is one of the best quality and least-cited arguments I have seen for the point you make. Buchanan, who did his dissertation on the topic "Reimarus was right", argued that the language of "kingdom of God" associated with the Gospels' Jesus meant an earthly holy Jewish empire, and that spiritualization of this is anachronistic. Buchanan told me his argument was ignored but never refuted, with the only proposed scholarly rebuttal being an argument that there was innovation of new meanings for the language (this is the Gospels' claim as well). However Buchanan pointed out the problem with this scholarly rebuttal is there is no non-anachronistic evidence for it. Therefore, the known contemporary range of meaning of the language can by default be assumed in the absence of evidence to the contrary to be the original sense of the language (so Buchanan's argument), and this supports the thesis of your present article.

#1 - Greg Doudna - 04/09/2013 - 06:40

SaosSidirountios
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by SaosSidirountios »

Dear maryhelena, my PhD thesis is still available in this link provided by Royal Holloway University of London: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/en/per ... dirountios
If you do have any problems with this please go to British Library, and in the search box please enter Sidirountios. Then you will get a link. I will also try to have my thesis published in paper, after I update it.
SaosSidirountios
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by SaosSidirountios »

The title of my thesis is Zealot Early Christianity and the Emergence of Anti-Hellenism.
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maryhelena
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by maryhelena »

SaosSidirountios wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:24 am Dear maryhelena, my PhD thesis is still available in this link provided by Royal Holloway University of London: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/en/per ... dirountios
If you do have any problems with this please go to British Library, and in the search box please enter Sidirountios. Then you will get a link. I will also try to have my thesis published in paper, after I update it.
Hi

British Library sends me back to the royalhollloway site.....I have downloaded something from this site but the file does not open - on laptop, phone or three tablets......I downloaded an app that is supposed to open any file - no luck.

Maybe it's just me being otherwise - maybe see if the royalholloway site works for you ?

Anyway, welcome to the forum...
SaosSidirountios
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by SaosSidirountios »

Thank you Maryhelena.
It is not you. Most browsers cannot open these files. You need to be an expert in IT nowadays to do the most simple things. If you go to GeorgeSaos.com you will find my email. From there I could send you my thesis in Pdf format in an attachment.
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maryhelena
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by maryhelena »

SaosSidirountios wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 6:17 am Thank you Maryhelena.
It is not you. Most browsers cannot open these files. You need to be an expert in IT nowadays to do the most simple things. If you go to GeorgeSaos.com you will find my email. From there I could send you my thesis in Pdf format in an attachment.
Thanks.
email sent.....
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Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by Peter Kirby »

maryhelena wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:47 am
SaosSidirountios wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:24 am Dear maryhelena, my PhD thesis is still available in this link provided by Royal Holloway University of London: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/en/per ... dirountios
If you do have any problems with this please go to British Library, and in the search box please enter Sidirountios. Then you will get a link. I will also try to have my thesis published in paper, after I update it.
Hi

British Library sends me back to the royalhollloway site.....I have downloaded something from this site but the file does not open - on laptop, phone or three tablets......I downloaded an app that is supposed to open any file - no luck.

Maybe it's just me being otherwise - maybe see if the royalholloway site works for you ?

Anyway, welcome to the forum...
It works for me when I download and then change the file extension to PDF.
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maryhelena
Posts: 2962
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:22 pm
Location: England

Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by maryhelena »

Peter Kirby wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:32 am
maryhelena wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:47 am
SaosSidirountios wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:24 am Dear maryhelena, my PhD thesis is still available in this link provided by Royal Holloway University of London: https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/en/per ... dirountios
If you do have any problems with this please go to British Library, and in the search box please enter Sidirountios. Then you will get a link. I will also try to have my thesis published in paper, after I update it.
Hi

British Library sends me back to the royalhollloway site.....I have downloaded something from this site but the file does not open - on laptop, phone or three tablets......I downloaded an app that is supposed to open any file - no luck.

Maybe it's just me being otherwise - maybe see if the royalholloway site works for you ?

Anyway, welcome to the forum...
It works for me when I download and then change the file extension to PDF.
:notworthy:

Thanks, Peter. File works now as pdf.
SaosSidirountios
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:03 pm

Re: Does the ʺearthly kingdomʺ hypothesis imply necessarily a historical Jesus?

Post by SaosSidirountios »

maryhelena wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:29 am Comment by Greg Doudna on the above linked article by Bermejo-Rubio.

An excellent article. A little-known relevant work in this discussion is George Wesley Buchanan, _Jesus: The King and His Kingdom_ (1984), which is one of the best quality and least-cited arguments I have seen for the point you make. Buchanan, who did his dissertation on the topic "Reimarus was right", argued that the language of "kingdom of God" associated with the Gospels' Jesus meant an earthly holy Jewish empire, and that spiritualization of this is anachronistic. Buchanan told me his argument was ignored but never refuted, with the only proposed scholarly rebuttal being an argument that there was innovation of new meanings for the language (this is the Gospels' claim as well). However Buchanan pointed out the problem with this scholarly rebuttal is there is no non-anachronistic evidence for it. Therefore, the known contemporary range of meaning of the language can by default be assumed in the absence of evidence to the contrary to be the original sense of the language (so Buchanan's argument), and this supports the thesis of your present article.

#1 - Greg Doudna - 04/09/2013 - 06:40

Thank you for bringing this here
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