On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

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Giuseppe
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On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

Post by Giuseppe »

  • Hierocles claims that Christ was expelled by the Jews, collected 900 men and committed robberies (Lactantius, Inst. 5.3.4).
  • The Toledoth Yeschu claims the same thing, only it reports that, after the expulsion, Jesus collected 12 evil people and not 900 men.
  • Now, it is a fact that precisely the Gospel where Jesus is continually "expelled" by the Jews, and therefore is witness of this contrast, is the Fourth Gospel.
  • In whiletime, Stahl/Couchoud have proved that Jesus Barabbas was a caustic parody of the Jesus "Son of Father" of the Fourth Gospel.
  • Hence the Pagan attack against the Jesus "expelled by the Jews" finds his equivalent in the Synoptics's attack against the Jesus Barabbas "expelled by the Jews" in order to crucify Jesus called Christ: which means that both the Pagan polemists and the Synoptic tradition agreed in their accusation of sedition and robbery thrown against the same Jesus of the Fourth Gospel. The only difference is that the Pagan polemists meant, as the "Jesus expelled by the Jews", the Jesus of all the Christians, not only of a particular sect.
  • It is more probable that the editors of the Synoptics have adopted the Pagan accusation of sedition against the Jesus of the Fourth Gospel, by reducing him to a robber called Barabbas, rather than the remote possibility that the accusation of sedition was born independently in the mind of the editors of the Synoptics and in the mind of the Pagan polemists.
  • Therefore: it is correct to claim that the Barabbas episode had been invented to concede to the Pagan polemists that yes, Jesus was a robber and a seditionist, only he was the Jesus Barabbas ("Jesus Son of an Unknown Father") adored by those rival marcionites, not the Jesus adored by the Catholics.
  • Falling that difference between rival Jesuses for us moderns, we are titled to recognize that that concession above is equivalent to an embarrassing confession of a historical fact.
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Jagd
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Re: On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

Post by Jagd »

Terrific work. Quite a persuasive picture. Would there have been a salvific aspect to the execution, in this case? Or simply a tragic/shameful death, like how the Toledot Yeshu portrays it?

Also, with these bare elements of what appears like an early figuration of the "Christian" hero, it almost looks like he was seized by a mob and then "hanged" (notable that the Toledot Yeshu shows an execution by hanging, not a crucifixion, and it appears the punishment is done based on charges of blasphemy instead of sedition, which is even still true in the canonical narratives), with no trial and no "way to the cross" or anything. Indeed, the Toledot Yeshu portrays its Yeshu as always on the run, just like the Christ of the Fourth Gospel. I cannot help but compare this to the "sent out" nature of the itinerant apostles, always similarly on the move. There appears to be remnants of this in the oldest parts of Mark (also seen in Marcion) where the commission orders the disciples to be wanderers, never to stay in one place for too long, and gives reason for the Markan/Marcion hero always traveling around; he isn't on a preaching tour, he's on the escape.
Giuseppe wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:29 pm
  • Falling that difference between rival Jesuses for us moderns, we are titled to recognize that that concession above is equivalent to an embarrassing confession of a historical fact.
Supposing any historical person behind the Christ character, would you suppose a resurrection is even necessary for his revelatory appearing as a divine being to his apostles/followers? It looks like you could have his tragic end but his godly spirit persist, giving people visions, empowering them, and giving them eternal life (perhaps this is the root of the Johannine paraclete?) without any need for a resurrection.

Also: could this brigand Christ be the reasoning behind the rather violent cleansing of the Temple?
Giuseppe
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Re: On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

Post by Giuseppe »

never to stay in one place for too long
A possibility for that is that the Marcionite Jesus didn't have a human body hence it had to be always in movement.

“Foxes have dens, and birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head.”

Also: could this brigand Christ be the reasoning behind the rather violent cleansing of the Temple?
Hardly. I think, following Adam Winn, that the purification of the temple is a subtle way to claim that Jesus, and not Titus, purified really the temple. Mere propaganda.

I am going to examine the "earthly kingdom" hypothesis as the only viable alternative to mythicism, indeed.
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Jagd
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Re: On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

Post by Jagd »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:06 pm
Also: could this brigand Christ be the reasoning behind the rather violent cleansing of the Temple?
Hardly. I think, following Adam Winn, that the purification of the temple is a subtle way to claim that Jesus, and not Titus, purified really the temple. Mere propaganda.
Interesting! So it would be purely political, not theological (although in this era the lines are blurred) and, seemingly, a big allegory for the destruction of the temple. It is only with the Old Testament scriptures inserted in that the event becomes at all religious. Am I on the right track here?
Giuseppe wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:06 pm I am going to examine the "earthly kingdom" hypothesis as the only viable alternative to mythicism, indeed.
I do wonder if the earthly kingdom is an idea that comes out from the downfall of Jerusalem and the temple, basically painting Jesus as a herald for the new kingdom that some of the early Christians would run.
Giuseppe
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Re: On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

Post by Giuseppe »

Jagd wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:25 pmthe downfall of Jerusalem and the temple
more than the downfall of the temple, what seems to have affected strongly the first gospel from the real world is the insistent Flavian propaganda. It seems also that the need of a reaction against a such propaganda was even more strong than other religious goals.
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Jagd
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Re: On the expulsion of Jesus by the Jews according to Hierocles

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Giuseppe wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:12 pm insistent Flavian propaganda. It seems also that the need of a reaction against a such propaganda was even more strong than other religious goals.
I could certainly imagine that. Would that reaction against propaganda naturally broaden the earliest proto-Christian members beyond the Judaeans/Hebrews (essentially extending to anyone with anti-imperial/anti-Flavian sentiment across the Roman Empire)?
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