The Lord Sent to my lord jUPSalms. David as Model for Jesus

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Stephan Huller
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Re: The Lord Sent to my lord jUPSalms. David as Model for Je

Post by Stephan Huller »

For all those who wonder how the gospel was written, the scene in 4 Ezra where Ezra has been conversing with the angel who hung around the Patriarchs from the beginning. For the terminally stupid, Ezra was writing in an age where Israel had no Torah so he is trying to restore Moses's lost text:
Then I [Ezra] answered and said, "Let me speak in thy presence, Lord. For behold, I will go, as thou hast commanded me, and I will reprove the people who are now living; but who will warn those who will be born hereafter? For the world lies in darkness, and its inhabitants are without light. For thy law has been burned, and so no one knows the things which have been done or will be done by thee. If then I have found favor before thee, send the Holy Spirit into me, and I will write everything that has happened in the world from the beginning, the things which were written in thy law, that men may be able to find the path, and that those who wish to live in the last days may live."

He [the angel] answered me and said, "Go and gather the people, and tell them not to seek you for forty days. But prepare for yourself many writing tablets, and take with you Sarea, Dabria, Selemia, Ethanus, and Asiel -- these five, because they are trained to write rapidly; and you shall come here, and I will light in your heart the lamp of understanding, which shall not be put out until what you are about to write is finished. And when you have finished, some things you shall make public, and some you shall deliver in secret to the wise; tomorrow at this hour you shall begin to write."

Then I went as he commanded me, and I gathered all the people together, and said, "Hear these words, O Israel. At first our fathers dwelt as aliens in Egypt, and they were delivered from there, and received the law of life, which they did not keep, which you also have transgressed after them. Then land was given to you for a possession in the land of Zion; but you and your fathers committed iniquity and did not keep the ways which the Most High commanded you. And because he is a righteous judge, in due time he took from you what he had given. And now you are here, and your brethren are farther in the interior. If you, then, will rule over your minds and discipline your hearts, you shall be kept alive, and after death you shall obtain mercy. For after death the judgment will come, when we shall live again; and then the names of the righteous will become manifest, and the deeds of the ungodly will be disclosed. But let no one come to me now, and let no one seek me for forty days."

So I took the five men, as he commanded me, and we proceeded to the field, and remained there. And on the next day, behold, a voice called me, saying, "Ezra, open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink." Then I opened my mouth, and behold, a full cup was offered to me; it was full of something like water, but its color was like fire. And I took it and drank; and when I had drunk it, my heart poured forth understanding, and wisdom increased in my breast, for my spirit retained its memory;
and my mouth was opened, and was no longer closed. And the Most High gave understanding to the five men, and by turns they wrote what was dictated, in characters which they did not know. They sat forty days, and wrote during the daytime, and ate their bread at night.
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: The Lord Sent to my lord jUPSalms. David as Model for Jesus

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

.
I have a little riddle for Joe ;)

The name of David is found in four pericopes of GMark: Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:23ff), Blind Bartimaeus (Mark 10:46ff), The royal entry (Mark 11:1ff) and Christ a Son of David? (Mark 12:35ff).

The last three pericopes plainly contain a reference to the theme of "Father and Son".

- The son of Timaeus, Bartimaeus, cried: “Son of David, Jesus …”
- The crowd cried: “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David”
- Jesus asks: "How do the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?”

But where can one find that in the first pericope? (It's not the "Son of Man".) :angel:
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JoeWallack
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Whosonfirst?

Post by JoeWallack »

JW:

Verse Commentary
2
5 And Jesus seeing their faith saith unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins are forgiven.
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak? he blasphemeth: who can forgive sins but one, [even] God?
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10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath authority on earth to forgive sins (he saith to the sick of the palsy),
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28 so that the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.
-


JW:
It looks to me like your fourth is part of a different set of three. I think "Mark's" thematic source here is Fake Paul (Colossians). All kinds of parallels to 2nd chapter. Typical Markan cleverness here is Abiather as High Priest, another father son reference plus the bonus for all those highly literate multi lingual upper class in rural Israel who get that Abba is "father" in Aramaic. Quite a sophisticate for his time, not many were possessed with this level of literary skill at the time and most were likely in Rome.


Joseph


The New Porphyry
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Whosonfirst?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

JoeWallack wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:55 pm Typical Markan cleverness here is Abiathar as High Priest, another father son reference plus the bonus for all those highly literate multi lingual upper class in rural Israel who get that Abba is "father" in Aramaic. Quite a sophisticate for his time, not many were possessed with this level of literary skill at the time and most were likely in Rome.
:cheers:

Abiathar (Ἀβιαθάρ, indeclinable proper name, אֶבְיָתָר) - "father of abundance"

The meaning "father of abundance" also refers via Mark 11:10 to Mark 11:24f, where Jesus has to remind the disciples after the slogans during the royal entry ("Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David") that the true father is the father in heaven.

Mark 2:23-26 Mark 11:8-10 Mark 11:24-25
23 And it came to pass, He is passing through the grainfields on the Sabbaths, and His disciples began to make their way, plucking the heads of grain. ... 25 And He said to them, “Did you never read what David did when he had need, and he and those with him hungered— 26 how he entered into the house of God in the days of Abiathar ("father of abundance") the high priest, and ate the loaves of the presentation, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests—and he even gave to those being with him?” 8 And many spread their cloaks on the road, and others, branches having been cut down from the fields. 9 And those going before and those following were crying out: “Hosanna!” “Blessed is the One coming in the name of the Lord!” 10 “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father, David!” “Hosanna in the highest!” 24 Because of this I say to you, all things whatever praying, you also ask, believe that you receive, and it will be to you. 25 And when you may stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive it, so that your Father in the heavens also might forgive you your trespasses.”

schillingklaus
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Re: The Lord Sent to my lord jUPSalms. David as Model for Jesus

Post by schillingklaus »

This proves once more the falsity of Markan prioritism, a superstition to which infantile scholars follow like sheep although there is nowhere to go. Critical thinkers know that Paul is always and everywhere fake, and that other gospels often contain passages more original than Mk.
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