spin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:47 pm
Sinouhe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:15 pmIt seems obvious that one of the writer borrowed from the other.
I was arguing that the TT was dependent on Severus.
If SS was really independant from Tacitus, we should explain where does SS take his information about Neron being in Atium when the burning begin ? To my knowledge, it was only mentioned by Tacitus and SS :
Tacktus Annals XV:39:1
Nero, who at the time was staying in Antium, did not return to the capital until the fire was nearing the house by which he had connected the Palatine with the Gardens of Maecenas.
Sulpicius Severus Chronicle I:29
In the meantime, the number of the Christians being now very large, it happened that Rome was destroyed by fire,
while Nero was stationed at Antium.
This is why I think the partial interpolation in Tacitus by the same author (SS or a later scribe, IDK) for both texts seems the most logical. This would explain where SS took his information about Nero being in Antium as well as the similarities between the 2 texts.
Anthony Barett proposes this reconstruction with the putative interpolation in yellow :
(Tac. Ann. 15.44.2–5)
But neither human resourcefulness nor the emperor’s largesse nor ap- peasement of the gods could stop belief in the nasty rumour that an order had been given for the fire. To dispel the gossip Nero therefore found cul- prits on whom he inflicted the most exotic punishments.
{These were people hated for their shameful offences whom the common people called Chres- tians. 3. The man who gave them their name, Christus, had been executed during the rule of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilatus. The pernicious superstition had been temporarily suppressed, but it was starting to break out again, not just in Judea, the starting-point of that curse, but in Rome, as well, where all that is abominable and shameful in the world flows to- gether and gains popularity.}
4. And so, at first, those who were confessing were apprehended and, subsequently, on the disclosures they made, a huge number were joined with them—more because of their hatred of mankind [or “because of mankind’s hatred”] than because they were arsonists. As they died they were further subjected to insult. Covered with hides of wild beasts they perished by being torn to pieces by dogs; or they would be fastened to crosses and, when day- light had gone, set on fire to provide lighting at night. 5. Nero had offered his gardens as a venue for the show, and he would also put on circus enter- tainments, mixing with the plebs in his charioteer’s outfit or standing up in his chariot. As a result, guilty though these people were and deserving ex- emplary punishment, pity for them began to well up because it was felt that they were being exterminated not for the public good, but to gratify one man’s cruelty.
And we can find more connections between SS and the Annals :
Annals XV:44
Therefore, to scotch the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices,27 whom the crowd styled Christians.28 Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus,29 and
the pernicious superstition (exitiabilis superstitio) was checked for a moment...
Sulpicius Severus II:46
There follow the times of our own day, both difficult and dangerous. In these the churches have been defiled with no ordinary evil, and all things thrown into confusion. For then, for the first time, the infamous heresy of the Gnostics was detected in Spain—
a pernicious superstition (superstitio exitiabilis) which concealed itself under mystic rites.
Annals XV:37
...a few days later, he became, with the full rites of legitimate marriage,
the wife of one of that herd of degenerates,9 who bore the name of Pythagoras. The veil was drawn over the imperial head, witnesses were despatched to the scene; the dowry, the couch of wedded love, the nuptial torches, were there: everything, in fine, which night enshrouds even if a woman is the bride, was left open to the view.
Sulpicius Severus II:28
After this,
he also married a certain Pythagoras in the style of solemn alliances,
the bridal veil being put upon the emperor, while the usual dowry, and the marriage couch, and wedding torches, and, in short, all the other observances were forthcoming — things which even in the case of women, are not looked upon without some feeling of modesty.
Ghislaine De Senneville-Grave, a french scholar, mention 4 connections between Sulpicius Severus and "the Annals" and 5 between SS and "The Histories" :
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