davidmartin wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 1:18 am
Sure but Ignatius has 2 recensions and the longer one is a late reworking job I agree with you on that
I'm talking only about the short recension here, could a Thomas quote help date it?
In the Syriac Epistle to Polycarp it says this:
"For this purpose you are of both flesh and spirit, that you may entice those things which are visible before your face and may ask as regards those which are concealed from you that they too may be revealed to you"
Compared to Thomas
"Recognize what is before you, and what is hidden from you will be revealed to you; for there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed"
If there is no other known source for this it points to Thomas, even if it didn't the fact Ignatius is using a non-canonical saying as canonical points to an early date before the gospels being the only valid source of such sayings. It makes it look like Thomas was known to Ignatius. He clearly knows the Odes of Solomon as well something I was doubtful of till now. This stuff is a few decades earlier than say Irenaeus.
BTW Polycarp is a suspect for the author of the pastorals I read that on here on an old post
Thomas was around way before 150 is what it looks like and this proves it
And I think there's more Thomas quotes like this. I only just started looking yesterday and this one popped up straight away
From a printed book that set me back £1.99!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/173 ... UTF8&psc=1
DeConick usually has good parallels, yet not this time:
Matthew 10.26 (Qmatt) 'For nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.'
Luke 12.2 (Qluke) 'Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.'
Mark 4.22 'For there is nothing hidden except to be revealed; nor is anything secret, except to come to light'
Luke 8.17 'For nothing is hidden that will not be revealed, nor is anything secret that will not become known and come to light.'
Pseudo-Clementine Recognitions 3.13 'For if you had been willing to hear, that saying would have been exemplified in you, of him who said that "there is nothing hidden which shall not be known, nor covered which shall not be disclosed".'
Manichaean Kephalaia 65 'Know what is in front of your face, and then what is hidden from you will be revealed to you.'
Gathercole has none better:
Bibliography for GTh 5: H.-C. Puech, ‘Un logion de Jésus sur bandelette funéraire’, Revue de l’HistoiredesReligions147(1955),126–129,repr.inH.-C.Puech, EnQuêtedelaGnose,vol.II:Sur l’évangile selon Thomas: Esquisse d’une interprétation systématique (Paris: Gallimard, 1978), 59–62;W.Schrage,‘EvangelienzitateindenOxyrhynchus-LogienundimkoptischenThomas-evangelium’, in W. Eltester, ed. Apophoreta: Festschrift Ernst Haenchen (Berlin: Töpelmann, 1964), 251–268; S.R. Johnson, ‘The Hidden/ Revealed Saying in the Greek and Coptic Versions of Gos. Thom. 5 & 6’, NovT 44 (2002), 176–185; A. Luijendijk, ‘“Jesus says: ‘There Is Nothing Buried That Will Not Be Raised’.” A Late-Antique Shroud with Gospel of Thomas Logion 5 in Context’, ZAC 15 (2011), 389–410; Eisele, Welcher Thomas, 131–149; A. Luijendijk, ‘An Orthodox Corruption of the Gospel of Thomas’ (forthcoming).
Which highly likely means that you have a solid point, david