Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

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lsayre
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Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by lsayre »

Mark 10:17-18
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone".
Was Jesus declaring himself to either "be" or "not be" God via this passage? Bart Ehrman routinely states that Jesus never called himself God within the Synoptics.
Last edited by lsayre on Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by GakuseiDon »

Clearly, the author has Jesus saying he wasn't God.
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Jax
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Jax »

If anyone is interested here is the quote in Sinaiticus.

Image

viewtopic.php?p=131716#p131716
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Peter Kirby »

Taken in isolation, it's a simple repudiation, a gnomic claim to be God, or an invitation to consider more closely how Jesus is special but not God. Hard to say without more context.

The closest that the Gospel of Mark comes to indicating its christology might be the baptism scene:

10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

If the Spirit descends on Jesus, then it doesn't seem like Jesus himself was the Nicene Creed God ("born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made") or Chalcedonian Creed God ("the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable soul and body; consubstantial with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the virgin Mary").

Negative evidence may be perceived also from the trial scene (Mark 14):
55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56 Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.

57 Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 Yet even then their testimony did not agree.

60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.

Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

62 “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?”

They all condemned him as worthy of death. 65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.
Notably absent is any charge that Jesus claimed to be God.

That would have been the most obvious charge of blasphemy, and it is used in John.

The emphasis on the disagreement of the witnesses and false testimony suggests that the charges were invalid; that it was not blasphemy.

The invalidity of the accusations in Mark is also suggested by Pilate's judgment of them:
9 “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, 10 knowing it was out of self-interest that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him.
A similar scene to Mark 10:17-18 appears in Mark 2:

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

The claim there is that "the Son of Man has authority on earth," which would be given by God, even though he is not God.

(Matthew 16:19 is another interesting verse showing how a man could be given authority that would otherwise be a divine prerogative.)
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MrMacSon
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by MrMacSon »

Jax wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:42 pm
If anyone is interested here is the quote in Sinaiticus.

Image

viewtopic.php?p=131716#p131716
What's there in the red box? in the Greek?

ΑΓΑΘΟC ? ie. ἀγαθός (agathós) ?

What's between the |...| ie. between the vertical black lines ?

Maybe use https://greek.typeit.org/ or similar(?)

eta: What's after the red box? ... ΜΗΕΙCΟΘC ?
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MrMacSon
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by MrMacSon »

fwiw, that image^ suggests it's a re-purposed manuscript ie. that it's been written over
Secret Alias
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Secret Alias »

The Father is the merciful Good god. Jesus was likely the repentant Just god.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by MrMacSon »

I'm intrigued that ΑΓΑΘΟC ie. ἀγαθός could be or in fact is extrapolated to agatheós

is there an[other] etymology of theos/ god = good = god / theos ?

Etymology
Possibly from Proto-Hellenic *əgatʰós, from Proto-Indo-European *m̥ǵh₂-dʰh₁-ós (“made great; whose deeds are great”), from *méǵh₂s (“great”) + *dʰeh₁- (“do”) + *-ós. Compare Latin magnificus from same roots, via https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%8 ... F%8C%CF%82
Last edited by MrMacSon on Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mlinssen
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by mlinssen »

MrMacSon wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:34 pm I'm intrigued that ΑΓΑΘΟC ie. ἀγαθός could be or in fact is agatheós

is there an[other] etymology of theos/ god = good = god / theos ?

Etymology
Possibly from Proto-Hellenic *əgatʰós, from Proto-Indo-European *m̥ǵh₂-dʰh₁-ós (“made great; whose deeds are great”), from *méǵh₂s (“great”) + *dʰeh₁- (“do”) + *-ós. Compare Latin magnificus from same roots, via https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%8 ... F%8C%CF%82
You know you can view the entire codex yourself, don't you? Including transcription, notes, comments?

Mark 10:18

https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscri ... omSlider=0

ο δε ιϲ ειπεν αυτω
τι με λεγειϲ αγαθο
ουδειϲ αγαθοϲ ει
μη ειϲ ο θϲ

No, it most certainly DOES NOT say agatheós in Codex Sinaiticus: not in Mark 10:18 nor in Luke 18:19

https://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscri ... omSlider=0

ειπεν δε αυτω ο ιϲ
τι με λεγειϲ αγαθον
ουδιϲ αγαθοϲ ει
μη ειϲ ┬ θϲ

The ┬ says that the definite article in front of Theos got omitted (and then "fixed")

Bezae:

Mark 10:18

ο δε ιης ειπεν αυτω τι με λεγεις αγαθον
ουδεις αγαθος · ει μη μονος εις θς

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/621

Luke 18:19

ο δε ειπεν αυτω τι με λεγεις αγαθον
ουδεις αγαθος ει μη εις ο θς

https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/497

Neither does it say anything of that kind in Bezae. But feel free to continue your etymological search into nowhere. Or go by

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/ ... rimary_0_1
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MrMacSon
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by MrMacSon »

MrMacSon wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:50 pm
What's there in the red box? in the Greek?

ΑΓΑΘΟC ? ie. ἀγαθός (agathós) ?

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