Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
lsayre
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by lsayre »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:17 pm The Father is the merciful Good god. Jesus was likely the repentant Just god.
This would seemingly imply that Jesus is YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah, ...).
Giuseppe
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Giuseppe »

The parable of the Good Samaritan was originally in the Jesus's answer, as example of who is really Good.

Answer: the Samaritan (i.e. the Foreigner par excellence) is the Good one.
schillingklaus
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by schillingklaus »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:17 pm The Father is the merciful Good god. Jesus was likely the repentant Just god.
Is that the same as the ish?
Charles Wilson
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Charles Wilson »

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7589&p=116972&hilit ... fe#p116972

FWIW, I have this as an Archelaus Story.
You have to be able to infer Sarcasm and Cynicism (Modern Definition...) but overall it reads just fine as an Inverted Tale of The Patsy Archelaus being left holding the bag and even eager to allow the Romans to completely take over the Apparatus of the Judean State, so long as he gets the Title.

"Eternal Life is not for the little people..." It's for the Rulers, from Pharaoh to Caesar and their assigns.

CW
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Jax
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Jax »

MrMacSon wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:50 pm
Jax wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:42 pm
If anyone is interested here is the quote in Sinaiticus.

Image

viewtopic.php?p=131716#p131716
What's there in the red box? in the Greek?

ΑΓΑΘΟC ? ie. ἀγαθός (agathós) ?

What's between the |...| ie. between the vertical black lines ?

Maybe use https://greek.typeit.org/ or similar(?)

eta: What's after the red box? ... ΜΗΕΙCΟΘC ?
AGAThOS is in the red box and the word in between |....| is AGAThON the overline at the end is a Neu.

After the red box is EI MH EIC O ThC = "if no one the God". https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... /mar10.pdf
John2
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by John2 »

I think it's a sly way of saying that he is God (in the sense of being Daniel's "son of man" figure, which has divine attributes), since he doesn't deny that he is good, right? And it would be in keeping with what he says in Mk. 14:61-64 ("I am," which is the same in Greek as God's name in LXX Ex. 3:14: "This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you’”) and why the high priest regarded it as blasphemy.

Again the high priest questioned him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?”

“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “Why do we need any more witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy."
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Peter Kirby wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:00 pm Taken in isolation, it's a simple repudiation, a gnomic claim to be God, or an invitation to consider more closely how Jesus is special but not God. Hard to say without more context.
Modern scholars refer to the section Mark 8:22 – 10:52 as „the way“ or „on the way“, because this phrase is repeated several times in this section but not in other parts of the gospel. It’s also in the pericope in question.

Mark 8:27 … and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running,
Mark 10:52 And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

The section is framed by two healings of the blind (Bethsaida and Bartimaeus) and two messianic proclamations (Peter „Christ“, Bartimaeus „Son of David“).

In the center are three passion resurrection prediction followed in each case by incorrect behavior of the disciples, followed in each case by a in depth instruction of Jesus. The surrounding pericopes often revolve around the topics of following Jesus, the right attitude and the reward for the followers, eternal life, earthly possessions and social prestige.

lsayre wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:07 pmMark 10:17-18
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone".
Was Jesus declaring himself to either "be" or "not be" God via this passage? Bart Ehrman routinely states that Jesus never called himself God within the Synoptics.
Jesus refuses to claim a divine attribute while the man cannot forsake his possessions. imho the pericope is about success and failure in "denying himself".
schillingklaus
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by schillingklaus »

With the "I am" Jesus betrays that he is a theophany of the Jewish god, who used this self-designation when appearing to Moses in the flaming bush.

This is more obvious in the Gospel according to Thomas, where Thomas, afraid of being convicted for blasphemy, refuses to pronounce what he thinks about Jesus's identity.
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mlinssen
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by mlinssen »

schillingklaus wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:45 am With the "I am" Jesus betrays that he is a theophany of the Jewish god, who used this self-designation when appearing to Moses in the flaming bush.

This is more obvious in the Gospel according to Thomas, where Thomas, afraid of being convicted for blasphemy, refuses to pronounce what he thinks about Jesus's identity.
That is one interpretation, and a shallow one at that as it is explicitly stated that IS reveals 3 words to him, and Thomas' "buddies" inquire after what was said - upon which:

Thomas said to them: if I should say to you one in the words he has said to me, you will carry stone and you cast to me, and a fire comes from the stones, and she* burns you.

So it's not what Thomas thinks of his identity, all this is about is only repeating the 3 words - and Thomas merely hints at them this way via telling that him committing blasphemy in any of them would elicit the throwing of stones, which is a non sequitur of course.
The three words will remain a riddle but even if they had been written down in the text, their interpretation would have to be found, and perhaps this is all just one great joke by Thomas to verify whether or not the reader, presumably now in the role of Seeker, is not still after heaven (or Sea) or a Great Fish Good - it really doesn't matter what IS allegedly has said to Thomas, the Disciples would envy and dislike him for being singled out in the first place.
And perhaps that is why Thomas tells the Disciples exactly that what he does: no matter which word(s) he would tell them, they would take offense at it because he has been favoured by I(H)S while the others have been either ignored or told off - and all they need to compensate for their hurt pride, their jealousy, is some justification for what they already have in mind.
And anything will do, really - and Thomas (the author) doesn't sarcastically refer to them as "comrades" for nothing.
Hence the hidden reference to their hurt pride via ⲕⲱϩ, 'envy, zeal' and the crooked construction of "burn", ⲣⲱϩⲕ, a word unattested by any dictionary. The next play to that is the feminine reference to what will burn them, which can only point to the boiling Fountain

And naturally, the IS of Thomas pisses down the throat of any god, especially the Judaic one - that, on a side note
davidmartin
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by davidmartin »

Sorry, there is no "Jewish God"
The purview of the texts we are interested in is precisely concerned with defining exactly what God is or is not, so we have nothing to compare against strictly speaking, only to see that this definition was in progress at the time. When we see Jesus in conflict with the pharisees he is essentially in conflict with their idea of who God is rather than they themselves. It's not difficult to see it that way. But this is not unexpected since how God is seen varies greatly on the source in any case, yet even so it makes a lot of sense that Jesus is in fact partaking in this same definition himself. It doesn't make sense to assume a definition of God that was around at the time, even that found in the NT writings was what he had in mind, and at the very least one has to not assume anything
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