Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Philologus
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Philologus »

Why is the traditional explanation being dismissed/ignored?

Supposedly, the man saw Jesus as a regular human being, and Jesus was just saying that no human being is good, but God alone is good. Presumably Jesus did not see that as a suitable occasion to proclaim himself as divine and was just teaching the lesson that human beings are fallen / sinners. </end traditional explanation>
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Philologus wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 am Why is the traditional explanation being dismissed/ignored?

Supposedly, the man saw Jesus as a regular human being, and Jesus was just saying that no human being is good, but God alone is good. Presumably Jesus did not see that as a suitable occasion to proclaim himself as divine and was just teaching the lesson that human beings are fallen / sinners. </end traditional explanation>
I agree that this is the clearest and foremost statement of the pericope. I just think the text can be further interpreted.
lsayre
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by lsayre »

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:56 am
Philologus wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 am Why is the traditional explanation being dismissed/ignored?

Supposedly, the man saw Jesus as a regular human being, and Jesus was just saying that no human being is good, but God alone is good. Presumably Jesus did not see that as a suitable occasion to proclaim himself as divine and was just teaching the lesson that human beings are fallen / sinners. </end traditional explanation>
I agree that this is the clearest and foremost statement of the pericope. I just think the text can be further interpreted.
So Jesus can lie when it is convenient for him to do so?
Philologus
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Philologus »

lsayre wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:11 am
Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:56 am
Philologus wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 am Why is the traditional explanation being dismissed/ignored?

Supposedly, the man saw Jesus as a regular human being, and Jesus was just saying that no human being is good, but God alone is good. Presumably Jesus did not see that as a suitable occasion to proclaim himself as divine and was just teaching the lesson that human beings are fallen / sinners. </end traditional explanation>
I agree that this is the clearest and foremost statement of the pericope. I just think the text can be further interpreted.
So Jesus can lie when it is convenient for him to do so?
Technically there was no lie. Jesus never denied it.

It is strange, however, that the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke just told that story as is without commenting on it. They didn't say, for example, "Jesus did not want to reveal himself yet."
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Philologus wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:28 pm Technically there was no lie. Jesus never denied it.

It is strange, however, that the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke just told that story as is without commenting on it. They didn't say, for example, "Jesus did not want to reveal himself yet."
My impression is that Matthew changed many small details of the pericope because he ultimately doesn't want to communicate the same statement as Mark. The question should possibly not apply to him.

Regarding Mark, however, the question arises in general. Why is there a messianic secret? Why does Mark rarely say anything explicitly? Imho Mark was primarily concerned about something completely different by telling this story. In Mark 10, Jesus twice asks what he should „make“ for others.

10:35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do (ποιήσῃς) for us whatsoever we shall desire. 36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do (ποιήσω) for you?

10:51 And Jesus answered and said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do (ποιήσω) unto thee?

But the question of the rich man is what he himself should „make“ to „inherit“ eternal life like a possession (and in Mark 10:20 he is proud that he was „on guard“ [ἐφυλαξάμην] since his youth to keep the law).

10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do (ποιήσω) that I may inherit eternal life?

Mark characterizes this man as a self-made man and ultimately wants to make it clear that this is a wrong attitude. This man lacks relationship, devotion and attachment. Therefore Jesus is portrayed as a role model who „loves“ the rich man („21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him ...“).

Joe pointed out nicely Mark’s message in the other thread (10:27 „With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible“).
schillingklaus
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Re: Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good?

Post by schillingklaus »

The Jerusalem church only exists in the blooming fantasy of apologists and uncritical schol;ars; rather, it is a dogmatic invention by Judaizers to feign Jewish origins of Christianity. For example, in Luke 24, a further Judaizing interpolator inserted fraudulously an expression like "beginning with Jerusalem" and made the metanoia sound like a repentance of sins rather than a conversion to The Father (as opposed to the Jeish god).
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