One thing that bothers me about New translations of New Testament, they don't restore the names, for example Jacob (Ιάκωβος) in Mark 1:19 is called James in the KJV, NKJV, NLT, ASV, DBY, HNV, RSV, WEB, YLT, NIV, ESV, CSB, NET, BBE, NASB20, NASB95.
What is the reason behind this?
Jacob not James
Re: Jacob not James
Book of Jude should be called Book of Judas. Jude and Judas are both Ἰούδας. In fact in the Vulgate he is called Iudas and Yehudah in HNV.
Thomas Didymus Judas?
Thomas Didymus Judas?
Re: Jacob not James
Christian bias, yet one that is unique for English, and likely the US. Most other languages neatly copy the Greek and translate it accordingly: Jacobus de Rechtvaardige (Dutch), for example.Ethan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:44 am One thing that bothers me about New translations of New Testament, they don't restore the names, for example Jacob (Ιάκωβος) in Mark 1:19 is called James in the KJV, NKJV, NLT, ASV, DBY, HNV, RSV, WEB, YLT, NIV, ESV, CSB, NET, BBE, NASB20, NASB95.
What is the reason behind this?
The only way to read the NT and Septuagint is to read them in the original language. I highly recommend Berean Interlinear for the NT which certainly has its flaws and bias but is the least bad translation. For the LXX I use Swete's which is alright and for ease of use I consult the APB online:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/aposto ... miah/7.htm for example
The goal of bible translations is to interpret, in a last attempt to keep the flock corralled
Re: Jacob not James
I highly doubt it, Thomas was certainly not about anything Christian.
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Re: Jacob not James
Does this apply just to Mark 1:19 or to other or even all mentions of James in English versions?Ethan wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:44 am
One thing that bothers me about New translations of New Testament, they don't restore the names, for example Jacob (Ιάκωβος) in Mark 1:19 is called James in the KJV, NKJV, NLT, ASV, DBY, HNV, RSV, WEB, YLT, NIV, ESV, CSB, NET, BBE, NASB20, NASB95.
What is the reason behind this?
Re: Jacob not James
James is the Anglicization of the name Jacob. In Spanish is Jaime.
The decision to use the name James for Jacob was political. It was to sell the translation being done to the King, James the first (James the 6th of Scotland). It worked and the Authorized Version of the early 17th century, which we know today as the King James Version (well it's been updated some since then).
Off topic, but one thing I liked a lot about the KJV and several of the Authorized Versions after which are based on better manuscripts than the KJV<was a consistency in words for translation. Also in the KJV there is the use of the informal (e.g., thou art, etc) which is lost in modern English; we only have the formal, "you are," a result of the egalitarianism and Americanism of "every man a king," such that even the lowliest man is "sir" and woman "madam." Funny thing is people see "Thou art my God" and think it's formal, when in reality it's highly personal and informal. But alas English is not alone. German is seeing the formal forms steadily fall out of use in language, the informal winning out, even when speaking to people you don't know.
Today people use Jacob in English for political reasons as well, to emphasize the Jewish origin of Christianity. But others do it to more correctly correlate the name James to Jacob of the OT. And that is actually very important when analyzing the text.
Note, this is not only name changed. The other is Jesus for Joshua. This is Latin based. It's kind of startling to English speakers when the first encounter a Hispanic, especially from Latin America, with the name Jesus. It's a name we deliberately avoid in European culture, instead using the Jewish Joshua, without realizing they are one and the same. This is also important in understanding the relationship of Jesus to the OT Joshua's.
But Jesus is so ingrained in English speaking culture, and same with James, that it's probably best to simply note that it's actually "Joshua" and "Jacob" in the Greek. It'd take a mass movement to switch back to the Greek for these two names.
The decision to use the name James for Jacob was political. It was to sell the translation being done to the King, James the first (James the 6th of Scotland). It worked and the Authorized Version of the early 17th century, which we know today as the King James Version (well it's been updated some since then).
Off topic, but one thing I liked a lot about the KJV and several of the Authorized Versions after which are based on better manuscripts than the KJV<was a consistency in words for translation. Also in the KJV there is the use of the informal (e.g., thou art, etc) which is lost in modern English; we only have the formal, "you are," a result of the egalitarianism and Americanism of "every man a king," such that even the lowliest man is "sir" and woman "madam." Funny thing is people see "Thou art my God" and think it's formal, when in reality it's highly personal and informal. But alas English is not alone. German is seeing the formal forms steadily fall out of use in language, the informal winning out, even when speaking to people you don't know.
Today people use Jacob in English for political reasons as well, to emphasize the Jewish origin of Christianity. But others do it to more correctly correlate the name James to Jacob of the OT. And that is actually very important when analyzing the text.
Note, this is not only name changed. The other is Jesus for Joshua. This is Latin based. It's kind of startling to English speakers when the first encounter a Hispanic, especially from Latin America, with the name Jesus. It's a name we deliberately avoid in European culture, instead using the Jewish Joshua, without realizing they are one and the same. This is also important in understanding the relationship of Jesus to the OT Joshua's.
But Jesus is so ingrained in English speaking culture, and same with James, that it's probably best to simply note that it's actually "Joshua" and "Jacob" in the Greek. It'd take a mass movement to switch back to the Greek for these two names.
Last edited by Stuart on Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gorit Maqueda
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