Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

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Leucius Charinus
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Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Abbreviations: NTC = New Testament Canonical literature; NTA = New Testament Apocryphal literature; NHL = Nag Hammadi Library

A summary of an alternative proposal which addresses all the available ancient historical evidence is as follows. The church industry of the later 4th and subsequent centuries has conspired to bury the historical truth about the books of the heretics.

1) The NTA are best viewed as Post-Nicene literary reactions to the circulation of, the contents of, and the political authority invested in NTC Bible codex (including the LXX) by the Roman emperor, and legal Pontifex Maximus, Constantine c.325 CE.

2) The social identity of the authors of the NTA: it will be argued that the authors of the NTA were not Christians, but in fact highly educated and literate pagans, many of whom may be identified as Platonist philosophers.

3) The earlier heresiological narratives (secondary evidence) preserved by the church and which currently support the chronology of the mainstream paradigm for the NTA have been either interpolated or forged by the post Nicene church. The writings of Irenaeus, Tertullian, Justin et al are fabrications. Porphyry's "Life of Plotinus" 16 has been interpolated. These fabrications were undertaken after the later 4th century by both the Greek and Latin church industries. Those responsible were also responsible for the invention of Christian hagiographical literature. martyrological literature, the cult of the Saints and Martyrs and the kick-starting of the Holy Relic Trade which blossomed for over a thousand years. The "Historia Augusta" belongs here too. The forgery of heresiology was motivated by the desire to remove the massive avalanche of NTA books out of the time period when the Bible was first published by the emperor. The NTA were bad press. Constantine didn't need them or want them. He burnt them and executed their authors and preservers. Ultimately history was changed so that some of the books were witnessed by the Ante Nicene church industry in the form of heresiological "Fathers" such as Irenaeus at al.

4) It follows from the above that the proposal views there to have been no heresy prior to the very strong Constantinian Nicene orthodoxy. Arius of Alexandria was therefore the earliest heretic. Arius can be identified as a Platonist philosopher and the author of books which, according to Constantine, “pained and grieved and wounded the church”. It is suggested that Arius was the author of at least some of the NTA. The basis of the Arian controversy concerned the avalanche of the NTA books.

5) All theories for the authorship of the NTC and the history of Christian origins may be entertained in relation to the transmission of the NTC to the 4th century, The proposal here is that no matter when the NTC was composed, whether Jesus is historical or mythical, when the NTC was published by Constantine, none of the books of the NTA had been authored.
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The Nag Hammadi Library: Codex, Tractate, Title and Leaf numbers

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:59 pm Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Abbreviations: NTC = New Testament Canonical literature; NTA = New Testament Apocryphal literature; NHL = Nag Hammadi Library
It would be helpful if you would give an exhaustive list of your TLA's. I'll help you out with the NHL:

Code: Select all

CodexTractate	Title							Leaves
NHL CODEX I
	1	The Prayer of the Apostle Paul	A-B (flyleaf)
	2	The Apocryphon of James (The Secret Book of James)	1–16
	3	The Gospel of Truth					16–43
	4	The Treatise on the Resurrection			43–50
	5	The Tripartite Tractate					51–140
NHL CODEX II
	1	The Apocryphon of John			1–32
	2	The Gospel of Thomas			32–51
	3	The Gospel of Philip			51–86
	4	The Hypostasis of the Archons		86–97
	5	On the Origin of the World		97–127
	6	The Exegesis on the Soul		127–137
	7	The Book of Thomas the Contender	138–145
NHL CODEX III
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–40
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	40–69
	3	Eugnostos the Blessed		70–90
	4	The Sophia of Jesus Christ	90–119
	5	The Dialogue of the Saviour	120–149
NHL CODEX IV
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–49
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	50–81
NHL CODEX V
	1	Eugnostos the Blessed		1–17
	2	The Apocalypse of Paul		17–24
	3	The First Apocalypse of James	24–44
	4	The Second Apocalypse of James	44–63
	5	The Apocalypse of Adam		63–85
NHL CODEX VI
	1	The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles	1–12
	2	The Thunder, Perfect Mind			13–21
	3	Authoritative Teaching (Authoritative Discourse)23–35
	4	The Concept of Our Great Power			36–48
	5	Fragments: 588a-589b of Plato's Republic.	48–51
	6	The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth		52–63
	7	The Prayer of Thanksgiving			63–65
	8	Asclepius					65–78
NHL CODEX VII
	1	The Paraphrase of Shem			1–49
	2	The Second Treatise of the Great Seth	49–70
	3	Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter		70–84
	4	The Teachings of Silvanus		84–118
	5	The Three Steles of Seth		118–127
NHL CODEX VIII
	1	Zostrianos			1–132
	2	The Letter of Peter to Philip	132–140
NHL CODEX IX
	1	Melchizedek			1–27
	2	The Thought of Norea		27–29
	3	The Testimony of Truth		29–74
NHL CODEX X
	1	Marsanes			1–68
NHL CODEX XI
	1	The Interpretation of Knowledge	1–21
	2	A Valentinian Exposition	22–40
	3	Allogenes			40–44
	4	Hypsiphrone			45–69
NHL CODEX XII
	1	The Sentences of Sextus		15–16, 27-34
	2	The Gospel of Truth		35-60
	3	fragments	 
NHL CODEX XIII
	1	Trimorphic Protennoia		35–50
	2	On the Origin of the World	50
	3 	fragments	 
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: The Nag Hammadi Library: Codex, Tractate, Title and Leaf numbers

Post by Leucius Charinus »

mlinssen wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:46 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:59 pm Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Abbreviations: NTC = New Testament Canonical literature; NTA = New Testament Apocryphal literature; NHL = Nag Hammadi Library
It would be helpful if you would give an exhaustive list of your TLA's. I'll help you out with the NHL:

Code: Select all

CodexTractate	Title							Leaves
NHL CODEX I
	1	The Prayer of the Apostle Paul	A-B (flyleaf)
	2	The Apocryphon of James (The Secret Book of James)	1–16
	3	The Gospel of Truth					16–43
	4	The Treatise on the Resurrection			43–50
	5	The Tripartite Tractate					51–140
NHL CODEX II
	1	The Apocryphon of John			1–32
	2	The Gospel of Thomas			32–51
	3	The Gospel of Philip			51–86
	4	The Hypostasis of the Archons		86–97
	5	On the Origin of the World		97–127
	6	The Exegesis on the Soul		127–137
	7	The Book of Thomas the Contender	138–145
NHL CODEX III
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–40
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	40–69
	3	Eugnostos the Blessed		70–90
	4	The Sophia of Jesus Christ	90–119
	5	The Dialogue of the Saviour	120–149
NHL CODEX IV
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–49
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	50–81
NHL CODEX V
	1	Eugnostos the Blessed		1–17
	2	The Apocalypse of Paul		17–24
	3	The First Apocalypse of James	24–44
	4	The Second Apocalypse of James	44–63
	5	The Apocalypse of Adam		63–85
NHL CODEX VI
	1	The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles	1–12
	2	The Thunder, Perfect Mind			13–21
	3	Authoritative Teaching (Authoritative Discourse)23–35
	4	The Concept of Our Great Power			36–48
	5	Fragments: 588a-589b of Plato's Republic.	48–51
	6	The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth		52–63
	7	The Prayer of Thanksgiving			63–65
	8	Asclepius					65–78
NHL CODEX VII
	1	The Paraphrase of Shem			1–49
	2	The Second Treatise of the Great Seth	49–70
	3	Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter		70–84
	4	The Teachings of Silvanus		84–118
	5	The Three Steles of Seth		118–127
NHL CODEX VIII
	1	Zostrianos			1–132
	2	The Letter of Peter to Philip	132–140
NHL CODEX IX
	1	Melchizedek			1–27
	2	The Thought of Norea		27–29
	3	The Testimony of Truth		29–74
NHL CODEX X
	1	Marsanes			1–68
NHL CODEX XI
	1	The Interpretation of Knowledge	1–21
	2	A Valentinian Exposition	22–40
	3	Allogenes			40–44
	4	Hypsiphrone			45–69
NHL CODEX XII
	1	The Sentences of Sextus		15–16, 27-34
	2	The Gospel of Truth		35-60
	3	fragments	 
NHL CODEX XIII
	1	Trimorphic Protennoia		35–50
	2	On the Origin of the World	50
	3 	fragments	 
Thanks Martijn.

Nag Hammadi Library (NHL) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

Another tabulation for the texts in the NHL is here:
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Autho ... _Index.htm
The NHL is a subset of the NTA texts addressed in the OP.


New Testament Apocrypha (NTA) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

A tabulation for some of the texts in the NTA is here:
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Autho ... _Index.htm
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/apocrypha.html


New Testament Canonical Texts (NTC) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

A tabulation for the texts in the NTC is here:
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ ... ament.html

In addition to these two classes of "Early Christian Literature" there is:


Ecclesiastical History (EH) ---- AUTHORS = Eusebius & his continuators

SEE: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers

Ante-Nicene Fathers - 10 volumes (1st century to 325 CE)
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Series 1) - 14 volumes (312-c.410 CE)
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Series 2) - 14 volumes (312-c.410 CE)


Ecclesiastical History (EH) may be split into various strands as follows:

EH1 - Orthodox doctrines, preservation of NTC, creeds, lists of bishops, collected commentaries, attestations to NT readings, patristic comments, expositions, sermons, testimonia, early church "fathers", catenas, universal church, etc;

EH2 - Persecution by Roman emperors - political history or an ideological myth?

EH3 – Martyrology (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH4 – Hagiography (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH5 - Cult of Saints and Martyrs (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH6 - Holy Relic Trade (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH7 - Heresiology - Heresy, Heresiologists, Heretics, Heresiarchs and the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. (Is this also more (pseudo-historical fabrication);?);


ETA: This thread is a continuation of
viewtopic.php?t=771
This earlier discussion failed to address the forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology
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mlinssen
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Re: The Nag Hammadi Library: Codex, Tractate, Title and Leaf numbers

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:48 pm
mlinssen wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:46 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:59 pm Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Abbreviations: NTC = New Testament Canonical literature; NTA = New Testament Apocryphal literature; NHL = Nag Hammadi Library
It would be helpful if you would give an exhaustive list of your TLA's. I'll help you out with the NHL:

Code: Select all

CodexTractate	Title							Leaves
NHL CODEX I
	1	The Prayer of the Apostle Paul	A-B (flyleaf)
	2	The Apocryphon of James (The Secret Book of James)	1–16
	3	The Gospel of Truth					16–43
	4	The Treatise on the Resurrection			43–50
	5	The Tripartite Tractate					51–140
NHL CODEX II
	1	The Apocryphon of John			1–32
	2	The Gospel of Thomas			32–51
	3	The Gospel of Philip			51–86
	4	The Hypostasis of the Archons		86–97
	5	On the Origin of the World		97–127
	6	The Exegesis on the Soul		127–137
	7	The Book of Thomas the Contender	138–145
NHL CODEX III
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–40
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	40–69
	3	Eugnostos the Blessed		70–90
	4	The Sophia of Jesus Christ	90–119
	5	The Dialogue of the Saviour	120–149
NHL CODEX IV
	1	The Apocryphon of John		1–49
	2	The Gospel of the Egyptians	50–81
NHL CODEX V
	1	Eugnostos the Blessed		1–17
	2	The Apocalypse of Paul		17–24
	3	The First Apocalypse of James	24–44
	4	The Second Apocalypse of James	44–63
	5	The Apocalypse of Adam		63–85
NHL CODEX VI
	1	The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles	1–12
	2	The Thunder, Perfect Mind			13–21
	3	Authoritative Teaching (Authoritative Discourse)23–35
	4	The Concept of Our Great Power			36–48
	5	Fragments: 588a-589b of Plato's Republic.	48–51
	6	The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth		52–63
	7	The Prayer of Thanksgiving			63–65
	8	Asclepius					65–78
NHL CODEX VII
	1	The Paraphrase of Shem			1–49
	2	The Second Treatise of the Great Seth	49–70
	3	Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter		70–84
	4	The Teachings of Silvanus		84–118
	5	The Three Steles of Seth		118–127
NHL CODEX VIII
	1	Zostrianos			1–132
	2	The Letter of Peter to Philip	132–140
NHL CODEX IX
	1	Melchizedek			1–27
	2	The Thought of Norea		27–29
	3	The Testimony of Truth		29–74
NHL CODEX X
	1	Marsanes			1–68
NHL CODEX XI
	1	The Interpretation of Knowledge	1–21
	2	A Valentinian Exposition	22–40
	3	Allogenes			40–44
	4	Hypsiphrone			45–69
NHL CODEX XII
	1	The Sentences of Sextus		15–16, 27-34
	2	The Gospel of Truth		35-60
	3	fragments	 
NHL CODEX XIII
	1	Trimorphic Protennoia		35–50
	2	On the Origin of the World	50
	3 	fragments	 
Thanks Martijn.

Nag Hammadi Library (NHL) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

Another tabulation for the texts in the NHL is here:
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Autho ... _Index.htm
The NHL is a subset of the NTA texts addressed in the OP.


New Testament Apocrypha (NTA) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

A tabulation for some of the texts in the NTA is here:
http://mountainman.com.au/essenes/Autho ... _Index.htm
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/apocrypha.html


New Testament Canonical Texts (NTC) ---- AUTHORS = Unknown

A tabulation for the texts in the NTC is here:
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ ... ament.html

In addition to these two classes of "Early Christian Literature" there is:


Ecclesiastical History (EH) ---- AUTHORS = Eusebius & his continuators

SEE: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers

Ante-Nicene Fathers - 10 volumes (1st century to 325 CE)
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Series 1) - 14 volumes (312-c.410 CE)
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Series 2) - 14 volumes (312-c.410 CE)


Ecclesiastical History (EH) may be split into various strands as follows:

EH1 - Orthodox doctrines, preservation of NTC, creeds, lists of bishops, collected commentaries, attestations to NT readings, patristic comments, expositions, sermons, testimonia, early church "fathers", catenas, universal church, etc;

EH2 - Persecution by Roman emperors - political history or an ideological myth?

EH3 – Martyrology (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH4 – Hagiography (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH5 - Cult of Saints and Martyrs (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH6 - Holy Relic Trade (pseudo-historical fabrication);

EH7 - Heresiology - Heresy, Heresiologists, Heretics, Heresiarchs and the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. (Is this also more (pseudo-historical fabrication);?);


ETA: This thread is a continuation of
viewtopic.php?t=771
This earlier discussion failed to address the forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology
It appears that you count Thomas to what you call NTA - which implies that, according to your claim / theory, Thomas dates after 325 CE.
That would in turn imply that the NT also dates after 325 CE, as textual criticism amply and abundantly demonstrates that the NT copied Thomas
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Leucius Charinus
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Re: The Nag Hammadi Library: Codex, Tractate, Title and Leaf numbers

Post by Leucius Charinus »

mlinssen wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:00 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:48 pm This earlier discussion failed to address the forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology
It appears that you count Thomas to what you call NTA - which implies that, according to your claim / theory, Thomas dates after 325 CE.
That would in turn imply that the NT also dates after 325 CE, as textual criticism amply and abundantly demonstrates that the NT copied Thomas
I am happy to concede that there may be exceptions, particularly in the case of the "Sayings of Thomas" where the argument is that it may have pre-existed the NTC and that the NTC authors drew upon it as a source. The appearance of gThomas in the NHL may thus be interpreted as a means whereby the editor of NHC II has exposed the literary source. The question still exists who wrote the sayings found in the gThomas and when. IDK the answer to this question although I can offer some possible ideas. I view the author of gThomas as some kind of master philosopher who was into non dual philosophy.

There is little doubt in my mind that the author of gThomas was not a Christian and that the sayings were prefaced with "IS said". Which opens up the question when were the nomina sacra (I think you call them ligatures) invented and who invented them. We find them saturating both the NTC and the NTA (including the NHL). This is an important question to be answered. As yet there is no general theory for the invention of these abbreviations. However it is clear that neither the Greeks nor the Jews used a great multiplicity of abbreviations. (Sure the Jews used one). OTOH the Romans were completely obsessed with abbreviations in almost every field of their culture. So on the face of things the nomina sacra appear to be a Roman invention (IMO).

Forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology --- eg: Irenaeus

This is a novel contention and I expect some push-back against it. The outline of this is sketched in the OP at point 3). The key pre-Nicene heresiologist suspected of being forged by the later 4th century Nicene church industry is Irenaeus who's attestations to NTA texts such as the Gospel of Judas move the latest possible date from the mid 4th century (where we have both C14 and paleographic dates) to the 2nd/3rd century.
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Re: The Nag Hammadi Library: Codex, Tractate, Title and Leaf numbers

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:02 pm
mlinssen wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:00 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:48 pm This earlier discussion failed to address the forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology
It appears that you count Thomas to what you call NTA - which implies that, according to your claim / theory, Thomas dates after 325 CE.
That would in turn imply that the NT also dates after 325 CE, as textual criticism amply and abundantly demonstrates that the NT copied Thomas
I am happy to concede that there may be exceptions, particularly in the case of the "Sayings of Thomas" where the argument is that it may have pre-existed the NTC and that the NTC authors drew upon it as a source. The appearance of gThomas in the NHL may thus be interpreted as a means whereby the editor of NHC II has exposed the literary source. The question still exists who wrote the sayings found in the gThomas and when. IDK the answer to this question although I can offer some possible ideas. I view the author of gThomas as some kind of master philosopher who was into non dual philosophy.

There is little doubt in my mind that the author of gThomas was not a Christian and that the sayings were prefaced with "IS said". Which opens up the question when were the nomina sacra (I think you call them ligatures) invented and who invented them. We find them saturating both the NTC and the NTA (including the NHL). This is an important question to be answered. As yet there is no general theory for the invention of these abbreviations. However it is clear that neither the Greeks nor the Jews used a great multiplicity of abbreviations. (Sure the Jews used one). OTOH the Romans were completely obsessed with abbreviations in almost every field of their culture. So on the face of things the nomina sacra appear to be a Roman invention (IMO).

Forgery of pre-Nicene heresiology --- eg: Irenaeus

This is a novel contention and I expect some push-back against it. The outline of this is sketched in the OP at point 3). The key pre-Nicene heresiologist suspected of being forged by the later 4th century Nicene church industry is Irenaeus who's attestations to NTA texts such as the Gospel of Judas move the latest possible date from the mid 4th century (where we have both C14 and paleographic dates) to the 2nd/3rd century.
Yes, nomina sacra is yet another attempt by Christians to claim them as their property and invention, and it falsely alleges a purpose and goal behind them while there is not a single sane academic paper that claims to have found one.
Coins are the answer, my friend: very little space there so abbreviations are inevitable

It is all so very obvious and all is hidden in plain sight.
But what is your elevator pitch to all this, what is the REASON for allegedly falsifying the NHL?

You see, one has to have either of the three: motive, opportunity and evidence.
All I used to have was evidence for the NT copying Thomas while opportunity certainly argued against the reverse scenario (and there's good reason for the Christians to want to date Thomas as late as possible, given the fact that some of his material is unique to Mark, Luke as well as Matthew) and now I am laughing hard and wrapping it all up as motive has also presented itself - but what do you have?
  • What is your evidence - and can you then please quote a few verses verbatim, with a link to their MS?
  • What is your opportunity - and that requires perhaps dating but it certainly requires an assessment of and statement on the scale of things, given your theory
  • What is your motive - and can you try to turn that into a synopsis, a 5-10 line convincing case
I'll be frank, as usual: you have based your theory on the biased and falsified NHL translations, which is completely understandable - but now is the time to either reject my findings that all of the NHL talks about Chrestian instead of Christian, or to accept them and then adapt your theory
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The 'It's All A Conspiracy!' Theory

Post by billd89 »

What total b.s.

So which is it: delusion, or psychopathic lying? (There's no third option.)
Last edited by billd89 on Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

Having extensively studied the use of abbreviation in ancient documents there can be no doubt that the nomina sacra phenomenon is Christian. To argue otherwise only betrays (a) a lack of first hand knowledge of the situation and (b) irredeemable stupidity.
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by Secret Alias »

As someone wanting escape from a boring job. What authority do you think you have to argue that everything that is known about a subject is wrong? Is it that you've studied ancient documents in their entirety (mostly from documents found in Egypt because that's where documents survive better) to make the case that nothing is different about Christian abbreviation habits or is it just something you feel like pursuing for some other reason - like a lot of spare time, lack of social life, need to fill the void of meaninglessness in the empty void of human existence? Christian abbreviation patterns are different than ancient abbreviation patterns.
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Re: Heresiology before 325 CE has been forged: NT Apocryphal literature is a Post-Nicene reaction to the NT Bible.

Post by mlinssen »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:26 am Having extensively studied the use of abbreviation in ancient documents there can be no doubt that the nomina sacra phenomenon is Christian. To argue otherwise only betrays (a) a lack of first hand knowledge of the situation and (b) irredeemable stupidity.
It's so very convenient to create your own definitions of something just so you can p0wn them, is it not?
Tell me then, the ⳨: is it a nomen sacrum, or "just a ligature"?
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