Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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mlinssen
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Re: Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

Post by mlinssen »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:43 pm Another genial finding by Stromholm: when the demons recognize Jesus as the son of god, etc, this was really a veiled criticism against gentilizers (remember that Stromholm calls them "Stephanists", but I may call them, with equal right, "marcionites") who adored Jesus as a deity ("Jesus Son of Father"...) and not as a mere pious Jew. As the implication goes, if you indulge de facto in marcionism by calling Jesus a deity, then you are a demon. "Therefore" you must recognize and concede his humanity, obviously his Jewishness. Pace Marcion.
Gentilizers, Stephanists, Marcionites, Chrestians: basically one and the same, especially in this context

So the demons calling Jesus the Son of God are meant to ridicule the Chrestians and at the same time emphasise the Christian / Judaizing standpoint that Jesus is human?
I think I'm finally getting to understand it all LOL
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Re: Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

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Giuseppe wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:10 pm Hear this: John the Baptist was killed by Herod because a previous story (found in Acts) had John the Pillar killed by Herod. So John Son of Thunder was the real Baptizer: only a radical Judaizer who didn't accept the compromise with the gentilizers, hence the antypathy of Marcion against him.
No, John has no role in Thomas.
John has no function in *Ev other than to serve as a showcase for the complete failure of the Judaic ability to prophecy, just as the disciples function to demonstrate the stupidity of Judaic rules and regulations as well as the incompetence and lack of thinking of the Judaic flock.
Mark needs to put Jesus and John in the same team, which he does, but John really is only a nuisance to him so he quickly exits him in order that the Elijah in him can appear at the Transfiguration - which he can't do as long as John is alive

The Beheading is a misinterpretation of https://biblehub.com/2_kings/2-3.htm

Then the sons of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and said, “Do you know that the LORD will take your master away from your head today?” “Yes, I know,” he replied. “Do not speak of it.

καὶ ἦλθον οἱ υἱοὶ τῶν προφητῶν οἱ ἐν Βαιθὴλ πρὸς Ἐλεισαῖε καὶ εἶπον πρὸς αὐτόν Εἰ ἔγνως ὅτι Κύριος σήμερον λαμβάνει τὸν κύριόν σου ἀπάνωθεν τῆς κεφαλῆς σου; καὶ εἶπεν Κἀγὼ ἔγνωκα, σιωπᾶτε.

which is hinted at by Mark, most mysteriously, via Mark 9:13 But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they have also done to him whatever they wanted to, even as it is written about him.

The Baptist banquet naturally is a copy of Esther 5:3

“What is it, Queen Esther?” the king inquired. “What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be given to you.”

Cf Mark 6:23

And he swore to her, "Whatever you might ask me, I will give you, up to half of my kingdom."

Stop looking into John the Baptist, he's a nobody. He does nothing in the NT, he's the biggest loser of them all. Just look at Mark, *Ev and Thomas, and you'll know exactly how he got where he was at
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Re: Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

Post by Giuseppe »

A good review of Stromholm's articles, even if done by an idiot theosophist:

THE DATE of the birth of Jesus is of considerable importance in connexion with the Theosophical doctrine of the occasional appearance of great Initiates who bring a new presentation of the ancient Wisdom-Religion to the world from time to time and start new cycles of spiritual activity.

According to the scholars the calendars are in error in calling this year Anno Domini (The Year of the Lord) 1928. In the margin of the Authorized Version of the New Testament the commentator says that Jesus was born in the “fourth year before the common account called Anno Domini”. This depends upon the statement in the Gospels that he was born before the death of Herod the King, a known date.

If an error of four years is admitted in this important matter, it is not impossible that a greater and more significant error has been made, an error which when detected would go far to confirm the Theosophical claim that Jesus was not unique, but one of many who were charged at various times to bring the saving gospel of Theosophy for the benefit of all the peoples of the earth.

In connexion with this subject an important series of articles in the Hibbert journal has thrown new light upon the beginning of the Christian Era, and has stirred the learned in such matters. The author is Dr. D. Stromholm of Upsala University, Sweden, and, in view of the weighty implications that follow acceptance of his evidence, a brief study of some of his points may interest our Theosophical and other readers.

Dr. Stromholm's articles give no indication of his having studied Theosophical literature, and, though his theory is in some respects in harmony with the records of the Eastern Wisdom, he omits one important factor without which the origin and deeper meaning of the Gospel narrative cannot be understood. This is the Drama of the Mysteries which will be spoken of later.

His argument demonstrates that much in the Gospels cannot be taken literally, but it leaves untouched and unshaken the actual existence and commanding influence of Jesus as a martyr to the cause of humanity, who delivered a large part of the noble teachings contained within the fabric of the Gospel-narratives. This is, of course, in harmony with Theosophy, which looks upon Jesus as “a great Initiate and a 'Son of God,'” in the words of H. P. Blavatsky.

Dr. Stromholm's position is briefly this, so far as our purpose makes it necessary to consider it:

Jesus lived several generations earlier than the period given in the New Testament;

The teachings given by him were recorded in some way and handed down to his followers, accompanied by traditions of his life and martyrdom;

Many years after his death his recorded teachings and others received through visions and revelations to his followers and the traditions of his career were collected, most probably by Mark, who created a story which served as a literary vehicle to convey the message of Jesus to the increasing number of converts.

Into this narrative, historical personages such as Herod, Pilate, etc., who lived long after the real time of Jesus, were brought in to give an effective historical setting. This was a perfectly legitimate and well-known method with writers of the classical period.

Before Mark collected and worked on his material, there were several rival schools of thought among the followers of Jesus, and the Gospels as we have them are the result of a compromise attained about the end of the first century. This explains the curious contradictions in the narratives and in the alleged teachings, which have even caused many learned scholars to doubt the very existence of Jesus.

We cannot quote or even discuss the close reasoning presented by Dr. Stromholm in favor of his theme, although to follow it is a most enjoyable mental exercise. Those who are interested will find the articles in the Hibbert journal for 1926-7-8. A few leading points, however, may be indicated before touching on the Theosophical aspect of the subject.

Dr. Stromholm does not find it necessary to go outside the pages of the New Testament for support; internal evidence is enough to establish his main points. He finds that the Gospels and Epistles display such contradictory views of Jesus and his teachings that he is forced to find “a scheme which will really fit the material presented, because the present one fails to do so”. Even as early as the time of the apostle Peter these differences were clearly marked, an inexplicable condition to have existed so close to the date of the crucifixion, if that took place in A. D. 33 or thereabouts, but not strange if a period of several generations had elapsed since that event.

Dr. Stromholm answers the well-known difficulty that the Gospels assign a historical setting which makes Jesus a contemporary of Paul, while Paul's writings contain no evidence that this was so, and in fact are inconsistent with such a possibility, by his suggestion of the literary method on which Mark composed the earliest Gospel.

The composition of the Gospel according to Mark may have taken place at the generally-accepted date, but the original material on which it was founded must have been accumulating for a long time, and the Epistles of Paul (the earliest and most important Christian witness) were written before any of the Gospels took shape. Dr. Stromholm writes:
“We assume that in the original Judean sources, and prior to the composition of the Gospels, Jesus' life was represented as historical, but with no importance attached to the exact period of time at which it had occurred, and that the party in the Church most concerned in the Mission to the West, with Paul as its chief representative, preached an abstract doctrine of Jesus in which the historic element was vague and little prominent.

“Following upon these conditions, and probably before the end of the first century came the earlier Gospels, in which, for the first time, precise chronological indications made their appearance - the reign of Tiberius, the procuratorship of Pilate, etc. This chronological scheme, once so presented, would soon be generally accepted, and even in Judea would quickly supersede the vague undated traditions that had prevailed hitherto”.



The Swedish professor has worked out a very ingenious explanation for the apparent contrast in the characters of the apostles (or disciples) as represented in the Gospels and in the other parts of the New Testament. He claims that, as the writer of the earliest Gospel knew nothing certain about the real disciples, who had been long dead when he wrote, he had to fill their necessary places with figures of little substance but who acted as a chorus to the drama. Their names were taken from the later apostles whose personalities were real and positive.

Dr. Stromholm skilfully analyses the weak and colorless activities of the disciples in the Gospels and compares them with the courageous and individualized behavior of the same characters in the Acts and Epistles. He says:

“The cardinal mistake. the fons et origo of most of the perversions and confusions which have since followed, was the transformation of the 'apostles' or preachers of the risen Christ, into personal disciples' and comrades of the historical Jesus during his lifetime. This mistake I attribute to Mark, from whom it passed on to subsequent evangelists ....

“Mark, knowing nothing independently of the chronology of Jesus' life, and on the look-out for definite names to give the circle of disciples by which in his literary plan he conceived the chief Figure should be surrounded, should suppose that these apostles were the disciples in question ....

“It is not difficult to define the class of historician to which Mark belonged . . it was common enough in antiquity. Perhaps Livy was his historical pattern ....

“Fragments and obscure stories are the material of such writers; these they go in search of and, when found , assign without chronological investigation to the period they are writing about, building them up and rounding them off into such tales as their contemporaries, whose notions of history are no more scientific than their own, are like to approve ....

“As a composer I consider Mark scrupulously honest, if judged by the literary standards of his time”.

Dr. Stromholm's main position is, then, that the great Teacher from whose life-work the Christian cycle originated, lived several generations earlier than the historical period described in the Gospels, and that the background of history, including Herod, Pilate, Tiberius, etc. , is a purely literary device of the writer of the earliest published Gospel. This theory, he declares, however startling it may appear at first, satisfactorily clears up the insurmountable difficulties which conscientious scholars have to face in the study of Christian origins, and it can be demonstrated by internal evidence contained in the New Testament without necessarily going outside it.

To the student of Theosophy, Dr. Stromholm's new and skilful demonstration of the great chronlogical error in the Gospel-narratives is of profound interest, and its presentation to the world of scholars at this particular cycle hardly less so, as many students will recognise.

Its importance is great because it independently confirms H. P. Blavatsky's teaching as to the real period in which Jesus lived (although Dr. Stromholm seems to be unaware of what she has written) and, above all, because it indirectly but conclusively supports the Theosophical claim that Jesus was one of the great Brotherhood of Teachers, of Initiates in the ancient Wisdom-Religion, who come from time to time in order to re-state those fundamental truths of spiritual and moral life which have never been without a witness.

Among such Teachers a few names stand out above the mists of time: Buddha, Krishna, LaoTse, Confucius, Pythagoras, Plato, Sankaracharya, the Zoroasters, perhaps Quetzalcoatl, and others, varying in degree of spiritual insight, but all united in fundamentals.

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Re: Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

Post by Giuseppe »

Here I see a better review:

D. Strömholm. The Riddle of the New Testament (2e art.). — La distance chronologique qui sépare Jésus de la composition des Evangiles serait beaucoup plus grande que la tradition ne l'admet. Les apôtres vivant dans un rapport mystique avec Jésus ressuscité auraient été considérés, à tort, comme les compagnons personnels de Jésus, erreur qui aurait amené les évangélistes à placer la vie de Jésus à l'époque des apôtres, alors qu'en réalité il faudrait en reculer considérablement la date.

(my bold)

The part in bold, I think, has been proved by Stromholm. An example: the denial of Peter in Mark is based on a previous story where Peter DENIES that he is talking/seeing with the Risen Jesus, fearing he is only a lying spirit. In the original story, Peter, after the initial doubts, becomes persuaded that he is talking/seeing the Risen Christ.
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Re: Stromholm: The Riddle of the New Testament (1926)

Post by Giuseppe »

So the irony is that, when Samuel Goranson criticized my intuition that the denial of Peter was mythicist evidence, then really he, not me, was wrong!

The denial of Peter served, in the original story, to secure the hearers that the apostles were not idiots when they "saw" the ghost. They expressed doubts as only rational people do.
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