The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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mlinssen
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The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by mlinssen »

This is intended to be my last paper on it all: 3 years, over 2,000 pages written in 32 papers - and the puzzle is solved

https://www.academia.edu/76105160/The_s ... ristianity

Abstract:

This article proposes a business case for the emergence of Christianity, and one that has its basis in society at large, crossing the boundaries of time and place.
Under the circumstances presented it was nigh inevitable that Christianity came into being, and Mark and Paul will demonstrate the alignment in identical goals accomplished via similar methods, unified under one and the same overarching plan

Judaism plays a more than pivotal role in Christian origins and the two share a common history that goes back many decades, perhaps even centuries

I ran into difficulties when creating a Discussion, so that'll be some time although lately Academia Support has resolved issues in a matter of mere hours!
Regardless, I wish you a very interesting read as usual, and welcome any and all feedback
Last edited by mlinssen on Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Giuseppe
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by Giuseppe »

Very interesting:
Paul is really trying very, very hard to appear to convince Judaics that Chrestianity is not all that bad really and come to think of it, even a fulfilling of Torah promises

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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by mlinssen »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:16 am Very interesting:
Paul is really trying very, very hard to appear to convince Judaics that Chrestianity is not all that bad really and come to think of it, even a fulfilling of Torah promises


In essence, the gospels thus share the same strategy as Paul ff:

1. Heal the wounds between Judaism and Chrestianity by ending the divide via bringing the opponents together;
2. Permanently align Chrestianity and Judaism by forging an unbreakable bond between the two via making one dependent on the other and vice versa

Paul (and ff) addresses the first point with his apologising for the Gentiles having received this new god and kingdom, even while being “Lawless” and uncircumcised, and he moves on to the second point by asserting that Chrestianity is the fulfilment of God’s plan (Romans 9:25-26);
Mark (and ff) handles the first issue by taking the anti-Judaism in *Ev and focussing all of it towards the ‘Pharisees and scribes’ - thereby catching two birds with one stone, and his way of addressing the second point is by taking not Chrestianity but only Jesus and to present him as the fulfilment of God’s plan (Mark 1:1-3).

And that's the master plan, gents. The two diverting streams of the same river, to split and never meet again.
Paul dumps Jesus and focuses entirely on the existing religion, Mark naturally pretends there is no existing religion at all, it is all his creation / evangellion, and focuses entirely on Jesus
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by Jagd »

mlinssen wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:15 am This is intended to be my last paper on it all: 3 years, over 2,000 pages written in 32 papers - and the puzzle is solved

https://www.academia.edu/76105160/The_s ... ristianity

Abstract:

This article proposes a business case for the emergence of Christianity, and one that has its basis in society at large, crossing the boundaries of time and place.
Under the circumstances presented it was nigh inevitable that Christianity came into being, and Mark and Paul will demonstrate the alignment in identical goals accomplished via similar methods, unified under one and the same overarching plan

Judaism plays a more than pivotal role in Christian origins and the two share a common history that goes back many decades, perhaps even centuries

I ran into difficulties when creating a Discussion, so that'll be some time although lately Academia Support has resolved issues in a matter of mere hours!
Regardless, I wish you a very interesting read as usual, and welcome any and all feedback
This is dynamite, Martijn. A gorgeous primer on the bleeding-edge of this whole study. I've already shared it with some friends.

Question: How do you figure the largely anti-Judaic gospel of John figures into all of this, especially considering the intimate Johannine-Thomasine connections? The Christology of John appears unassociated from the Tanakh (including its "prophecies", laws, and Yahweh) and more indebted to Hellenic thought. Mainstream scholars (and Ehrmanized researchers) often chalk this up to Christianity moving away from Judaism over time. But considering the Thomasine-Johannine connection and how the fundamentals of Christianity/Chrestianity are so Hellenic, could it be that Christianity/Chrestianity moved toward Judaism, and the Christology of the gospel of John contains remnants from before that move?
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by Leucius Charinus »

Interesting stuff. Can you cite the chapter reference in Cassius Dio to Chrestians? (p.8) Thanks
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

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Leucius Charinus wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:58 pm Interesting stuff. Can you cite the chapter reference in Cassius Dio to Chrestians? (p.8) Thanks
Yes, thought about that but it really was meant as an outline doc even though it's grown to 20 pages - and there are so many more other indications.
I decided to have no refences at all and simply end with the most trustful and faithful (cough) witnesses there are: Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and Bezae

You and John Bartram have a wealth of material on Chrestian too, I'd love to have online sources to all of it like everything else in my work

Yes it's dynamite, isn't it? All this occurred to me in February when I read Markus Vinzent's Christi Thora - I posted some here but abruptly broke that off as I realised that Markus himself didn't realise how extremely disruptive his *Ev in fact was.
I decided to let it all go and let it run its course because I was afraid he'd pull the book if he found it that it was him who led me to discover this! Yeah, I get really nervous sometimes LOL but it usually quickly ebs away - although this stayed

Yet his latest blog post http://markusvinzent.blogspot.com/2022/ ... simon.html made me change my mind, and last week I started on it, conveniently in time for publication during Holy Week

So, credit where credit's due: Markus sketched a picture of John the Baptist that made me realise how much in line with Thomas *Ev really was, considering the anti-Judaism. Then the Markan ending posts here made me realise what Mark's ending really entailed - and then Neil's posts on the wars in another thread painted a picture that would for the context to that

I've reached the bottom of the rabbit hole - but I'll definitely take a real break now
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by mlinssen »

Jagd wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:10 pm
mlinssen wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:15 am This is intended to be my last paper on it all: 3 years, over 2,000 pages written in 32 papers - and the puzzle is solved

https://www.academia.edu/76105160/The_s ... ristianity

Abstract:

This article proposes a business case for the emergence of Christianity, and one that has its basis in society at large, crossing the boundaries of time and place.
Under the circumstances presented it was nigh inevitable that Christianity came into being, and Mark and Paul will demonstrate the alignment in identical goals accomplished via similar methods, unified under one and the same overarching plan

Judaism plays a more than pivotal role in Christian origins and the two share a common history that goes back many decades, perhaps even centuries

I ran into difficulties when creating a Discussion, so that'll be some time although lately Academia Support has resolved issues in a matter of mere hours!
Regardless, I wish you a very interesting read as usual, and welcome any and all feedback
This is dynamite, Martijn. A gorgeous primer on the bleeding-edge of this whole study. I've already shared it with some friends.

Question: How do you figure the largely anti-Judaic gospel of John figures into all of this, especially considering the intimate Johannine-Thomasine connections? The Christology of John appears unassociated from the Tanakh (including its "prophecies", laws, and Yahweh) and more indebted to Hellenic thought. Mainstream scholars (and Ehrmanized researchers) often chalk this up to Christianity moving away from Judaism over time. But considering the Thomasine-Johannine connection and how the fundamentals of Christianity/Chrestianity are so Hellenic, could it be that Christianity/Chrestianity moved toward Judaism, and the Christology of the gospel of John contains remnants from before that move?
Hi Jagd, thanks!
John is, I think, like Thomas, first and foremost pro-Samarian. Not Samaritan as in the religion, but Samarian as in the country / region.
John is published late but written very early I think - it is so purely Thomasine in nature yet it really does seem to come last in the NT. Yet its was first in the order of Irenaeus' Canon so that's puzzling, although nothing guarantees that that John there resembled the one that we know in any way

Chrestianity became Christianity when the Romans rewrote it and - to overcome the gaping void with Judaism because of its fierce opposition to it - fused it with Judaism in order to end the wars

That's the tweetable content really, and John is certainly Chrestian, perhaps even a proto-*Ev. Look at his crucifixion scene: he uses the native Greek for flogging whereas Mark and Matthew use the Roman loanword - so it is Mark who invented it and all of it got added to John

I think :whistling:
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by andrewcriddle »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:58 pm Interesting stuff. Can you cite the chapter reference in Cassius Dio to Chrestians? (p.8) Thanks
The later Christian paraphrases of Cassius Dio mention Christianity more than once.
There is probably only one original reference.
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/ ... o/73*.html
There was a certain Marcia, the mistress of Quadratus (one of the men slain at this time), and Eclectus, his cubicularius;​3 the latter became the cubicularius of Commodus also, and the former, first the emperor's mistress and later the wife of Eclectus, 7 and she saw them also perish by violence. The tradition is that she greatly favoured the Christians and rendered them many kindnesses, inasmuch as she could do anything with Commodus.
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Re: The self-evident emergence of Christianity

Post by mlinssen »

andrewcriddle wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:08 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:58 pm Interesting stuff. Can you cite the chapter reference in Cassius Dio to Chrestians? (p.8) Thanks
The later Christian paraphrases of Cassius Dio mention Christianity more than once.
There is probably only one original reference.
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/ ... o/73*.html
There was a certain Marcia, the mistress of Quadratus (one of the men slain at this time), and Eclectus, his cubicularius;​3 the latter became the cubicularius of Commodus also, and the former, first the emperor's mistress and later the wife of Eclectus, 7 and she saw them also perish by violence. The tradition is that she greatly favoured the Christians and rendered them many kindnesses, inasmuch as she could do anything with Commodus.
Andrew Criddle
Until I see the manuscript that this comes from it has no value - we all know how willing and able Christians are to Christify everything - and it is highly likely that this also says Chrestians, not Christians
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Cassius Dio's Rome: books 1-80, manuscript evidence

Post by mlinssen »

mlinssen wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:14 am
andrewcriddle wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:08 am
Leucius Charinus wrote: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:58 pm Interesting stuff. Can you cite the chapter reference in Cassius Dio to Chrestians? (p.8) Thanks
The later Christian paraphrases of Cassius Dio mention Christianity more than once.
There is probably only one original reference.
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/ ... o/73*.html
There was a certain Marcia, the mistress of Quadratus (one of the men slain at this time), and Eclectus, his cubicularius;​3 the latter became the cubicularius of Commodus also, and the former, first the emperor's mistress and later the wife of Eclectus, 7 and she saw them also perish by violence. The tradition is that she greatly favoured the Christians and rendered them many kindnesses, inasmuch as she could do anything with Commodus.
Andrew Criddle
Until I see the manuscript that this comes from it has no value - we all know how willing and able Christians are to Christify everything - and it is highly likely that this also says Chrestians, not Christians
Loeb 177 has Cassius Dio Book LXXIII

1) see attached, and/or
2) https://ryanfb.github.io/loebolus-data/L177.pdf and/or
3) http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... Abook%3D73 and/or
4) https://archive.org/details/romanhistor ... 8/mode/2up
CassiusDio_Romans_Book_LXXIII-Christianoi.png
CassiusDio_Romans_Book_LXXIII-Christianoi.png (164.79 KiB) Viewed 2277 times
Xiph. 269, 19-270, 14 R. St. undoubtedly points to a fragment, but there's nothing in Loeb that is of any help

Pearce to the rescue!

https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manu ... assius.htm

Dio Cassius: the Manuscripts of "The Roman History"


Cassius Dio (or Dion Cassius as he is known in Greek) wrote his Roman History in 80 books in Greek, sometime in the early 3rd century under Severus or Caracalla, both of whom he knew. Dio exerted no appreciable influence on his immediate successors in the field of Roman history. But among the Byzantines he became the standard authority on the subject, a circumstance to which we doubtless owe the preservation of such a large portion of his work. Most of the remainder is extant in the 'condensed book' format, or 'epitome' so favoured by the Byzantine.

"About one third of Dio's History has come down to us intact. The extant portions are:

(a) Books XXXIV-LX (in large part), contained in eleven Mss.;
(b) Book LXXVIII with part of LXXIX (or XXXIX with part of LXXX according to Boissevain's division), preserved in a single Ms. ;
(c) the Paris fragments describing events of the years 207-200 B.C., recovered from the binding of a Strabo Ms.

For our knowledge of the lost portions of Dio's work we have two kinds of sources:

(1) Excerpts contained in various Byzantine collections, together with brief quotations made by lexicographers and grammarians; and
(2) Epitomes by Zonaras and Xiphilinus, supplemented by occasional citations in other historical writers.

The quotations of the first class may be supposed to give, as a rule, the very words of Dio, subject of course to necessary changes in phraseology at the beginning, and sometimes at the end, and to occasional omission elsewhere of portions unessential to the excerptor's purpose. These constitute the Fragments of our author in the strict sense of the term.

The Epitomes, on the other hand, while they often repeat entire sentences of Dio verbatim, or nearly so (as may readily be seen by comparing extant portions of the histories with Zonaras or Xiphilinus), must, nevertheless, be regarded as essentially paraphrases." (Cary)

The account of the revolt of Boudicca, in book 62, is for instance only extant in the Epitome of Xiphilinus.

Earnest Cary's introduction, which discusses the Mss., is online, together with his English translation. I have preferred data from Freyburger as more up to date, where available.

Books 34-60

There are 11 Mss. which contain books 34-60, or portions of this. L and M are the main witnesses: V, P and A are useful where these are missing portions of the text.

Siglum

Location

Shelfmark & Notes

Date /
Century

M

Venice: San Marco Codex Marcianus Graecus 395. Containing Books XLIV, 35, 4-LX, 28, 3 ; but numerous leaves and even whole quaternions have been lost. It came from Constantinople and was brought to Italy by Cardinal Bessarion. He in turn bequeathed it to Venice in 1468.
end of 9 - start of 10

L

Florence: Laurentian Library Codex Laurentianus 70, 8. Containing Books XXXVI, 18, 1-L, 6, 2. This may be a copy of a portion of M made at a time when M was part of a then-complete set of the Roman History. It only ever contains books 30-60, and is a little later than M in date. However Boissevain believed that L and M were both copied from the same exemplar.
10

V

Rome: Vatican Codex Vaticanus Graecus 144. Containing Books XXXVI-LIV. Direct copy of L. Dated the same day as the Union of Florence of the Greek and Roman churches organised by Bessarion.
5th July 1439

P

Paris: Bibliothèque Nationale. Codex Parisinus Graecus 1689. Containing Books XXXVI-LX. Used by Stephanus in his edition of 1548.
15

A

Florence: Laurentian Library Codex Laurentianus 70, 10. Containing Books XLII-LX. Probably copied in Constantinople from L, M and a copy of Xiphilinus (see below). This scribe went so far as to modify the text of Dio at the end of the battle of Actium (50, 35, 6) and replace it with that of Xiphilinus.
15

B Paris: Bibliothèque Nationale. Codex Parisinus Graecus 1689. Possibly from the same scriptorium as A. Contains also books 36-60. 15
C Venice: San Marco Codex Marcianus Graecus 396. Probably a copy of B ordered by Bessarion at Constantinople. Contains likewise books 36-60. 15
D Rome: Vatican Codex Vaticanus Graecus 993. Copied from C. end of 15 - start of 16
T Turin Codex Taurinensis 76. Copied from C. end of 15 - start of 16
S Madrid: Escorial Codex Scorialensis Y-I-4. Copied from C. end of 15 - start of 16
P Paris: Bibliothèque Nationale. Codex Parisinus Graecus 1690. Copy of V. 16
Z Besancon Codex Vesontinus 846 (once Z 68.80). Copy of M for books 44-56. 16 (start)
"It has been conclusively shown by Boissevain that V is a copy of L, made, however, while L was in a completer state than at present; that A is in the main a copy of M, but with additions from L; and that P is derived from L for the earlier books and from A for the later. ...

"It is clear, therefore, that only L and M are of value except where passages now lost in one or both appear in the derived Mss. Thus V and P are our only Mss. for XXXVI, 1-17; V takes the place of L for the greater part of L-LIV; and similarly A serves instead of M for LII, 5, 2-20, 4; LX, 17, 7-20, 2, and LX, 22, 2-26, 2, being the sole Ms. to give the last two passages. Unfortunately M has several extensive gaps in books LV-LX which cannot be filled out from the later Mss." (Cary)

The tradition splits into groups: MVP, and ABCD.

Books 78-79

A single manuscript preserves this portion of the text:

Siglum

Location

Shelfmark & Notes

Date /
Century

V Rome: Vatican Codex Vaticanus Graecus 1288, vellum Ms. of fifth or sixth century, in uncial characters. It teems with errors, many of which, however, were corrected by a second hand, apparently with the aid of another Ms. V' belonged to Fulvio Orsini, who published the contents in 1582 (Excerpta Ursiniana, pp. 416-47). 5/6
Paris Fragments

"These are found on five parchment leaves which have been used in patching up a Strabo Ms. (Parisinus 1397 A). They evidently belonged to a Ms. of Dio written about the eleventh century, and describe events of the years 207-200 B.C. (Frgs. 57, 53-60, 63-71, 76, 81, 83-86; 58, 1-6). Haase first published them in the Rheinisches Museum for 1839, pp. 445-76." (Cary)

Indirect Tradition

1. The Excerpts

"The Excerpts De Virtutibus el Vitiis (V) are found in a Ms. of the tenth century, the Codex Peirescianus, now in the library of Tours. It was first published in 1634 by Henri de Valois, whence the fragments are sometimes called Excerpta Valesiana, as well as Peiresciana. The collection consists (at present) of quotations from fourteen historians, extending from Herodotus to Malalas. From Dio alone there are 415 excerpts, and the Ms. originally contained still more.

"The Excerpts De Sententiis (M) are contained in a Vatican palimpsest (Vaticanus Graecus 73) of the tenth or eleventh century. The Ms. is in very bad condition; numerous leaves were discarded and the others disarranged when the Ms. was used for the second writing. Angelo Mai, who first published the collection in 1826, employed chemical reagents to bring out the letters and even then had to despair of many passages. Since his use of the Ms. the letters have naturally faded still more, and parts of some leaves have been covered in the work of repair. The excerpts attributed to Dio are drawn from nearly all periods of Roman history, and fall into two groups, the first extending down to 216 B.C., the other from 40 B.C. to the reign of Constantine ; between the two portions several leaves, and probably entire quaternions, have been lost from the Ms. That the former set of fragments is taken from Dio none will deny. The later collection, however, extends much beyond the reign of Alexander Severus, where Dio ended his history; furthermore, the style and diction are considerably different from Dio's own. It is now generally agreed that all the excerpts of this second set were the work of one man, whom Boissevain, following Niebuhr, would identify with Petrus Patricius, a historian of the sixth century. Nevertheless, though not direct quotations from Dio, they are of value in filling out both his account and that of Xiphilinus.

"The Excerpts De Legationibus, Embassies (a) of Foreign Nations to the Romans (UG), and (b) of the Romans to Foreign Nations (UR), appear in nine Mss., all derived from a Spanish archetype (since destroyed by fire) owned by Juan Paez de Castro in the sixteenth century. First published by Fulvio Orsini in 1582, and hence called Excerpta Ursiniana.

"The three collections thus far named are known collectively as the Excerpta Constantiniana. They formed a small part of a great encyclopedia of more than fifty subjects, compiled under the direction of Constantine VII. Porphyrogennetus (A.D. 912-59). They have recently been reedited by Boissevain, de Boor, and Biittner-Wobst (Berlin, 1903-06).

"The Florilegium (Flor.) of Maximus the Confessor contains excerpts from various authors, arranged under seventy-one categories, the first of which is Virtue and Vice. Mai first published a number of fragments of Dio from this collection (from a Vatican Ms.), but inserted several which have since been rejected. There are at least six Mss. of the Florilegium containing excerpts from Dio. From one of these (Parisinus 1169, of the fourteenth or fifteenth century) Boissevain adds to the previous fragments No. 55, 3a and 3b.

"The Excerpla Planudea, a collection made by the monk Maximus Planudes (1260-1310) and published by Mai, have been shown by Boissevain and others to have no place among the fragments of Dio. A unique exception is the fragment at the beginning of Book XXI (Vol. ii, p. 370).

"The short syntactical lexicon ( Περὶ Συντάξεως) published in Bekker's Anecdota Graeca (vol. i. pp. 117-180) contains nearly 140 brief citations from Dio, nearly all of which are assigned to their several books, though unfortunately many of the numbers have been corrupted. On the basis of these citations, compared with the epitomes, von Gutschmid and Boissevain independently attempted to determine the points of division between the lost books of Dio, and reached essentially the same results. Yet in several places the evidence is insufficient to constitute more than a reasonable probability.

"There are so few fragments from Books XXX-XXXV that Boissevain attempts no division within these limits. Between Books XI and XII the proper point of division is particularly uncertain; [Cary] differs from Boissevain.

"The lexicon of Suidas, the Etymologicum Magnum, and a few other compilations of like character are also useful in affording occasional citations from Dio, often by book-number." (Cary)

2. The Epitome of John Zonaras

"Zonaras was private secretary to the emperor Alexis I. Comnenus in the early part of the twelfth century; later he retired to a monastery on Mt. Athos and devoted himself to literary labours. Among various works which he left is his 'Epitomh_ 'Istoriw~n, a history of the world, in eighteen books, extending from the creation down to the death of Alexis in 1118. It has been satisfactorily shown that for Books VII-IX, in which Roman history is carried down from the landing of Aeneas to 146 B.C., his chief source was Dio, supplemented by Plutarch and a couple of quotations from Herodotus: We are justified, therefore, in recognizing as an epitome of Dio whatever remains after the exclusion of the portions that are derivable from the other two sources. After narrating the destruction of Corinth Zonaras laments that he could find no ancient authorities for the remainder of the republican period ; hence it is inferred that Books XXII-XXXV had even then been lost from all the Mss. He resumes his narration with the time of Sulla, and after relying on various lives of Plutarch for a time, finally follows Dio's account once more, beginning with Book XLIV, 3 ; but for the period subsequent to Domitian's death he used Dio only indirectly, through the epitome of Xiphilinus. Zonaras is therefore of great importance for Books I-XXI, and to a lesser degree for Books XLIV-LXVII, where he occasionally supplements our Mss. of Dio or the epitome of Xiphilinus. There are numerous Mss. of Zonaras, five of which are cited by Boissevain..." (Cary)

[I have been unable to locate any details of the manuscripts, as I have no access to Boissevain or any critical text of Zonaras (if any exists)]

3. The Epitome of John Xiphilinus

"For Books LXI-LXXX our chief authority is Xiphilinus, a monk of Constantinople, who made an abridgment of Books XXXVI-LXXX at the request of the emperor Michael VII. Ducas. (1071-78). Even in his time Books LXX and LXXI (Boissevain's division), containing the reign of Antoninus Pius and the first part of that of Marcus Aurelius, had already perished. He divided his epitome into sections each containing the life of one emperor, and thus is of no authority as regards Dio's divisions ; furthermore his task was very carelessly performed." (Cary)

Siglum

Location

Shelfmark & Notes

Date /
Century

V Rome: Vatican Codex Vaticanus Graecus 145 15
C Paris: Bibliothèque Nationale. Codex Parisinus Coislinianus 320 15
"The epitome is found in at least sixteen Mss.; but all the rest are derived from one or the other of two fifteenth century Mss., Vaticanus 145 and Coislinianus 320. Besides these two (abbreviated V and C), we have readings from an unknown Xiphilinus Ms. entered in A of Dio to fill various gaps ; but the scribe of A dealt very freely with such passages." (Cary)

[ I have been unable to obtain more precise information ]

4. John Tzetzes and others

"loannes Tzetzes (twelfth century) in his farrago of historical and mythological stories now entitled Chiliads, from the arbitrary division of the work into sections of one thousand verses each, occasionally cites Dio among his various authorities. But he dealt very freely with his material, and it is often difficult to determine exactly how much of Dio underlies his version. The present text omits a few passages printed with some hesitation by Boissevain. Tzetzes also cites Dio a few times in his commentary on Lycophron's Alexandra.

"Other writers who are similarly of use in supplementing the epitomes are Eustathius, archbishop of Thessalonica in the twelfth century, famous for his commentary on Homer; loannes Antiochenus [John of Antioch], a historian of the seventh century; loannes Damascenus [John Damascene], an ecclesiastical writer of the eighth century; loannes Laurentius Lydus [John the Lydian], of the sixth century, who wrote of the Magistrates of the Roman Republic, and Cedrenus, a historian of the eleventh century." (Cary)

Chapter titles, Summaries, Tables of Contents

There are summaries of the content consisting of numbers followed by a text at the start of each book. In addition the consuls are listed. However, these summaries cannot be authorial, as in one case (book 56, ch. 27) the compiler has misunderstood a faulty reading in the copy before him.

Bibliography

E. CARY, Dio's Roman History ... in Nine Volumes, Loeb edition (1914 ff). Checked.
Marie-Laure FREYBURGER & Jean-Michel RODDAZ, Dion Cassius: Histoire Romaine. Livres 50 et 51. Paris: Belles-Lettres (1991). Checked.

The Epitomes, on the other hand, while they often repeat entire sentences of Dio verbatim, or nearly so (as may readily be seen by comparing extant portions of the histories with Zonaras or Xiphilinus), must, nevertheless, be regarded as essentially paraphrases." (Cary)
And that's exactly where this quote is from.
And once again I find myself doing the homework of others who just wave some English at me, without a reference to anything else. And I have busied myself for over half an hour with this, learned something new yes, and while it is completely irrelevant to the OP, the thread, the entire topic at hand and the 20-page paper, it is telling of the way this "field" works

No more - none of this. Never again.
Unless you present a manuscript that can be verified, with a date to it and a fairly full provenance history, you can claim all you want but it just won't count, it will be disregarded, ignored

IT IS YOU, WHO MAKES THE CLAIM, WHO BEARS THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR BRINGING IN THE EVIDENCE
Last edited by mlinssen on Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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