Similar Doesn't Mean the Same

[Giuseppe]

Yes, Christianity is unique. But it didn't just arise in or out of Judaism. There were Graeco-Roman influences.

And it's likely there was an element of 'Judaisation' during it genesis

The more I research the origins of Christianity, the clearer this era of Judaisation becomes. I try to keep it short for when I talk with other people about it: the foundations of Christianity are Hellenic, and it was later tied to Judaic scripture, becoming a religion in the shape of a new Judaism, while still maintaining a Hellenic core. We still see this Hellenic core in Eastern Orthodoxy, with their emphasis on theosis and theoria, both of which are Hellenic mystical ideas with no cognate in Judaism (apart from later Kabbalistic analogues).

I agree. And I think that the facts of 70 CE did the difference: the Diaspora provoked a new and more strong judaization of pre-existing gentile communities.

Something of similar happens today: the new migrants are welcomed only because they come from a country of war. Migrants from other countries are considered of second level.

[Jagd]

Yes, Christianity is unique. But it didn't just arise in or out of Judaism. There were Graeco-Roman influences.

And it's likely there was an element of 'Judaisation' during it genesis

The more I research the origins of Christianity, the clearer this era of Judaisation becomes. I try to keep it short for when I talk with other people about it: the foundations of Christianity are Hellenic, and it was later tied to Judaic scripture, becoming a religion in the shape of a new Judaism, while still maintaining a Hellenic core. We still see this Hellenic core in Eastern Orthodoxy, with their emphasis on theosis and theoria, both of which are Hellenic mystical ideas with no cognate in Judaism (apart from later Kabbalistic analogues).

I agree. And I think that the facts of 70 CE did the difference: the Diaspora provoked a new and more strong judaization of pre-existing gentile communities.

Something of similar happens today: the new migrants are welcomed only because they come from a country of war. Migrants from other countries are considered of second level.

Ah! I had never thought of a refugee factor to the Judaization, but that makes a lot of sense. The implications seem to be:

1.) The Judaean refugees became involved in the extremely popular mystery religions, leading to the building of a new Hebraic mystery religion based on Judaic lore and Hellenistic mysticism (Philo's Hellenistic mysticism being the precursor to the kind that went into Christianity)
2.) There was indeed some kind of Chrestianity (which I am now leaning towards being the case) that was very nascent and minor enough that once the Judaic migrations hit, the Judaization was so thorough in creating a new Judaism (Christianity) that all the remnants of Chrestianity were dwarfed, swept away, and/or heavily repackaged.

Both of these sorta fit with Carrier's timeline: there was some kind of Christ mystery religion that was so minor that it probably would've died out if it weren't for Paul and his generation of "apostolic" Christianity (this era being the Judaization - notable how Paul himself refers to Judaizers, seemingly with the sentiment that they're taking the Judaization too far) . It could be that this minor Christ mystery religion was something like the Chrestianity being reconstructed around here.

To make it very simple: Chrestianity / Mystery Religion Precedents ---> Judaization ---> Christianity

[billd89]

Ah! I had never thought of a refugee factor to the Judaization, but that makes a lot of sense. The implications seem to be:

1.) The Judaean refugees became involved in the extremely popular mystery religions, leading to the building of a new Hebraic mystery religion based on Judaic lore and Hellenistic mysticism (Philo's Hellenistic mysticism being the precursor to the kind that went into Christianity)
2.) There was indeed some kind of Chrestianity (which I am now leaning towards being the case) that was very nascent and minor enough that once the Judaic migrations hit, the Judaization was so thorough in creating a new Judaism (Christianity) that all the remnants of Chrestianity were dwarfed, swept away, and/or heavily repackaged.
... To make it very simple: Chrestianity / Mystery Religion Precedents ---> Judaization ---> Christianity

I have been tracking this thesis more generally; I have carefully read Goodenough (1935), because many living scholars have cited him as the 'first' proponent of this thesis.* However, I am VERY doubtful of that novelty or credit. I am still investigating the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule, because Goodenough cites Reitzenstein, Bousset and others.

* For example, see G. C. Richards' Review: By Light, Light by E. R. Goodenough in The Journal of Theological Studies Vol. 38, No. 152 (OCTOBER, 1937), pp. 414-416.; p.415:

The most startling hypothesis of this book goes far to rob Philo of any originality. Professor Goodenough postulates the existence of a Jewish secret society of initiates (Thiasos) with Presbuteroi ordained in a mystical succession (pp.217,262), which is partly justified by De Gigantibus 24; one wonders he does not add 'with a sacred meal of egkruphiai {unleavened cakes} (Genesis 28:6). A Jewish mystery religion, made up of a fusion of Iranian, Isiac, and Hellenistic elements superposed on Judaism, antedated Philo by one and a half or two centuries! This is a startling view and we doubt if it will commend itself to Jewish scholars. Has not Professor Goodenough taken too literally the language of mystery religions deliberately adopted by Philo for proselytizing purposes, just as St Paul does from the Christian standpoint ? ...

On the contrary, Philo richly elaborates the Therapeutae (Hermetic Asaphim?) as exemplars of the A. A. So it's really no surprise that - following Goodenough - the Ludwig Edelsteins would develop this idea of a heterodox Alexandrian (Thothic-) Mosaic Cult even further.

In 1938, that 'new Hebraic mystery religion' (Judeo-Hermeticism) was re-created for the Rockfeller project at the Rockefeller-funded Institute of the History of Medicine, on the 3rd floor of the William H. Welch Medical Library at Johns Hopkins University, 1900 E. Monument St., Baltimore MD. The rest is history.

[perseusomega9]

How about being:

a. a text-based ...

Like Judaism, like the philosophers the first date-able Xtians self-proclaim themselves as,like all those early heretics coming out of Alexandria with its literary power (including Philo)?