Justin Martyrs Writings Dates?

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mlinssen
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by mlinssen »

Leucius Charinus wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:07 pm
GakuseiDon wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:46 pm AFAIK "Chrestian" stops being referenced after Tertullian, though I could be wrong.
See below.

The sources of "Chrestian" [χρηστιανος] and "Christian" [χριστιανος] in Antiquity


Most of the following list has been extracted from the tabulation here:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/c ... stians.htm



1.00) Manuscript Evidence: "Chrestian" exclusively dominates earliest evidence from 3rd/4th centuries

1.01) SB XII 10772 ................. "Chrestian" [3rd/4th century?]
1.02) P.Laur. II 42 ................ "Chrestian" [3rd/4th century?]
1.03) P.Oxy.XLIII 3149 ............. "Chrestian" [5th century?]
1.04) SB XVI 12497 ................. "Chrestian" [3rd/4th century?]
1.05) P.Oxy XLII 3035 .............. "Chresian" [28 February 256 CE]
1.06) P.Oxy.XLIII 3119 ............. "Chrestian" [3rd/4th century?]
1.07) PGM IV. 3007-86 .............. "The Good" ("Chrestos") [4th century]
1.08) Manichaean Mss: Kellis ....... "The Good" ("Chrestos") [4th century?]
1.09) Cartonage NHC7 ............... "The Good" ("Chrestos") [4th century]
1.10) [#01] Codex Sinaiticus........ "Chrestian" [4th century?] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus
1.11) Nag Hammadi Codices ....... Mid 4th century
1.12) Gospel of Philip (NHC 2.3) ..... Contains both Chrestian and Christian !!!
1.21) Miniscule 1243 ............... "Chrestian" [11th century]


2.00) Manuscript Evidence: "not known"
2.01) Chester Beatty 45 ............ lacunae, nomina sacra form? [3rd century]


3.00) Manuscript Evidence: "Chreistian" (Transitional spelling? epsilon-iota diphthong)

3.01) [#03] Codex Vaticanus ....... "Chreistians" [4th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Vaticanus
3.02) [#05] Codex Bezae ........... "Chreistians" [6th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Bezae


4.00) Manuscript Evidence: Uncials/Majuscules - "Christian" (later evidence from 5th/6th centuries????)

4.001) Gospel of Philip (NHC 2.3) ..... Contains both Chrestian and Christian !!!
4.01) [#02] Codex Alexandrinus .... "Christian" [5th century?] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alexandrinus
4.02) [#08] Codex Laudianus ....... "Christian" [6th century?] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Laudianus
4.03) [#14] Codex Mutinensis ...... "Christian" [7th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Mutinensis
4.04) [#20] Codex Angelicus ....... "Christian" [9th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Angelicus
4.05) [#25] Codex Porphyrianus .... "Christian" [9th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Porphyrianus
4.06) [#44] Codex Athous Lavrensis. "Christian" [9th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Athous_Lavrensis
4.07) [#049] Codex at Mt. Athos ... "Christian" [9th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncial_049
4.08) [#056] Codex at Paris ....... "Christian" [10th century] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncial_056

Manuscript Evidence: Miniscules:
4.09) 1 (12th),
4.10) 88 (12th),
4.11) 104 (dated 1087 CE),
4.12) 226 (12th),
4.13) 323 (12th),
4.14) 330 (12th),
4.15) 440 (14th),
4.16) 547 (11th),
4.17) 614 (13th),
4.18) 618 (12th),
4.19) 927 (dated 1133 CE),
4.20) 945 (11th),
4.21) 1175 (14th),
4.22) 1241 (12th),
4.23) 1245 (12th),
4.24) 1270 (11th),
4.25) 1505 (12th),
4.26) 1611 (10th),
4.27) 1646 (12th),
4.28) 1739 (10th),
4.29) 1828 (14th) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuscule_182
4.30) 1837,
4.31) 1854,
4.32) 1891,
4.33) 2147,
4.34) 2344,
4.35) 2412,
4.36) 2492,
4.37) 2495.
etc

Source: New Testament Greek Manuscripts: Acts - (1996) by Reuben Swanson (Editor)
Absolute great list and work Pete! :notworthy:
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by GakuseiDon »

mlinssen wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:40 pm
Leucius Charinus wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:07 pm
GakuseiDon wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:46 pm AFAIK "Chrestian" stops being referenced after Tertullian, though I could be wrong.
See below.

The sources of "Chrestian" [χρηστιανος] and "Christian" [χριστιανος] in Antiquity


Most of the following list has been extracted from the tabulation here:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/c ... stians.htm
<snipped>
Source: New Testament Greek Manuscripts: Acts - (1996) by Reuben Swanson (Editor)
Absolute great list and work Pete! :notworthy:
Yes indeed. I wasn't aware there were so many references to "Chrestian"! Definitely a lack of knowledge on my part. Thanks Leucius Charinus. :cheers:
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by GakuseiDon »

mlinssen wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:39 pm
GakuseiDon wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:46 pmYes, but called "Chrestian" by the pagans.
That's what Tertullian says, but Justin includes himself among the Chrestians.
I don't think he does. He uses "Christian" over 20 times in his First Apology. Is it your thought that all of these have been changed from "Chrestian"?

The issue is that Justin Martyr links the name of "Christ" to "anointing", and also links the name "Christian" to "Christ":
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ology.html

That all these things should come to pass, I say, our Teacher foretold, He who is both Son and Apostle of God the Father of all and the Ruler, Jesus Christ; from whom also we have the name of Christians.

"Christians" comes from "Christ", according to Justin. It's hard to see him having "Chrestians" in mind there.
mlinssen wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:39 pmI'm not a native English speaker, but WHERE IS THE PUN - why is it funny or punny, which words connect in which way?
Because I don't see any pun at all between Chrestos and anything else
Fom your earlier quote of Justin Martyr in this thread:

1. By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; and indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are most excellent people. 2. But as we do not think it just to beg to be acquitted on account of the name, if we be convicted as evil-doers, so, on the other hand, if we be found to have committed no offense, either in the matter of thus naming ourselves, or of our conduct as citizens, it is your part very earnestly to guard against incurring just punishment, by unjustly punishing those who are not convicted. 3. For from a name neither praise nor punishment could reasonably spring, unless something excellent or base in action be proved. 4. And those among yourselves who are accused you do not punish before they are convicted; but in our case you receive the name as proof against us, and this although, so far as the name goes, you ought rather to punish our accusers. 5. For we are accused of being Christians, and to hate what is excellent (Chrestian) is unjust. 6. Again, if any of the accused deny the name, and say that he is not a Christian, you acquit him, as having no evidence against him as a wrong-doer; but if any one acknowledge that he is a Christian, you punish him on account of this acknowledgment.

To me, Justin is creating a pun based on "the name we are accused of" by the pagans: "Chrestians". Pagans are calling Christians "excellent people". But, as Justin later goes on to explain in the same text: "we have the name of Christians" from "Jesus Christ". In his Second Apology, Justin explains that God's Son "is called Christ, in reference to His being anointed".
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by mlinssen »

GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:06 am Fom your earlier quote of Justin Martyr in this thread:

1. By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; and indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are most excellent people. 2. But as we do not think it just to beg to be acquitted on account of the name, if we be convicted as evil-doers, so, on the other hand, if we be found to have committed no offense, either in the matter of thus naming ourselves, or of our conduct as citizens, it is your part very earnestly to guard against incurring just punishment, by unjustly punishing those who are not convicted. 3. For from a name neither praise nor punishment could reasonably spring, unless something excellent or base in action be proved. 4. And those among yourselves who are accused you do not punish before they are convicted; but in our case you receive the name as proof against us, and this although, so far as the name goes, you ought rather to punish our accusers. 5. For we are accused of being Christians, and to hate what is excellent (Chrestian) is unjust. 6. Again, if any of the accused deny the name, and say that he is not a Christian, you acquit him, as having no evidence against him as a wrong-doer; but if any one acknowledge that he is a Christian, you punish him on account of this acknowledgment.

To me, Justin is creating a pun based on "the name we are accused of" by the pagans: "Chrestians". Pagans are calling Christians "excellent people". But, as Justin later goes on to explain in the same text: "we have the name of Christians" from "Jesus Christ". In his Second Apology, Justin explains that God's Son "is called Christ, in reference to His being anointed".
I'll go along with your reasoning, but we really have to stick to this very fragment, because that's where all the fun is. I know what Justin apologises for and I damn well know why and how he's doing that - but they just omitted to falsify all of this when they indeed changed Chrestians to Christians

but in our case you receive the name as proof against us, and this although, so far as the name goes, you ought rather to punish our accusers. For we are accused of being Chrestians, and to hate what is Chrestian is unjust

The pagans should be punished, not us: because our name speaks for us. The corrected Greek is much better to read:

Χρηστιανοὶ γὰρ εἶναι κατηγορούμεθα· τὸ δὲ χρηστὸν μισεῖσθαι οὐ δίκαιον
Chrestians indeed being we-are-accused-of, the however good to-hate not righteous

But for those who have difficulty reading Greek, let me literally translate just that one word into English

"Goodians" indeed being we-are-accused-of, the however good to-hate not righteous

We are accused of being called Good(ians), yet to hate which is good is not righteous! How can you accuse anyone of being good, what kind of accusation is that?

"Proof against us" is a very unlucky interpretation, it says

4. καὶ γὰρ τοὺς κατηγορουμένους ἐφ’ ὑμῶν πάντας πρὶν ἐλεγχθῆναι οὐ τιμωρεῖτε· ἐφ’ ἡμῶν δὲ τὸ ὄνομα ὡς ἔλεγχον λαμβάνετε, καίπερ, ὅσον γε ἐκ τοῦ ὀνόματος, τοὺς κατηγοροῦντας μᾶλλον κολάζειν ὀφείλετε

4. And indeed those charged among you altogether before being-accused not you-avenge. Among us however the name as accused you-take, although, even-as-much-as (ὅσον γε) out-of the name, those charging stronger chastise you-be-obliged-to

Not a pretty translation, no, but a true one. Does this make better sense? I'd have to mull on it a bit
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Re: Justin Martyrs Writings Dates?

Post by davidmartin »

Ode 11 from Greek:
the face of me was gladdened the breath of me by fragrance kindness of (the) Lord (χρηστότητος κ(υρίο)υ)
behold the workers of you good transformations make good from the evil to kindness (χρηστότητα)

Also Ode 41 mentions the Name and what might be Chrestos if we had the Greek:
Let us, therefore, all of us agree in the name of the Lord, and let us honor Him in His goodness

χρηστὸς (chrēstos) appears:
Matt 11:30 "For My yoke is easy (χρηστὸς) and My burden"
Luke 5:39 "And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better (χρηστὸς)’”
Luke 6:35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind (χρηστὸς) to those who are unthankful and wicked
1 Peter 2:3 "Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good (χρηστὸς)."
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by MrMacSon »

GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:06 am
1. By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; and indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are most excellent people. 2. But as we do not think it just to beg to be acquitted on account of the name, if we be convicted as evil-doers, so, on the other hand, if we be found to have committed no offense, either in the matter of thus naming ourselves, or of our conduct as citizens, it is your part very earnestly to guard against incurring just punishment, by unjustly punishing those who are not convicted. 3. For from a name neither praise nor punishment could reasonably spring, unless something excellent or base in action be proved. 4. And those among yourselves who are accused you do not punish before they are convicted; but in our case you receive the name as proof against us, and this although, so far as the name goes, you ought rather to punish our accusers. 5. For we are accused of being Christians, and to hate what is excellent (Chrestian) is unjust. 6. Again, if any of the accused deny the name, and say that he is not a Christian, you acquit him, as having no evidence against him as a wrong-doer; but if any one acknowledge that he is a Christian, you punish him on account of this acknowledgment.


The Greek of Chapter IV of Justin's First Apology -


Ὀνόματος μὲν οὖν προσωνυμία* οὔτε ἀγαθὸν οὔτε κακὸν κρίνεται ἄνευ τῶν ὑποπιπτουσῶν* τῷ ὀνόματι πράξεων· ἐπεί*, ὅσον γε* ἐκ τοῦ κατηγορουμένου ἡμῶν ὀνόματος, χρηστότατοι* ὑπάρχομεν*. Ἀλλʼ ἐπεὶ οὐ τοῦτο* δίκαιον ἡγούμεθα*, διὰ τὸ ὄνομα, ἐὰν κακοὶ ἐλεγχώμεθα, αἰτεῖν ἀφίεσθαι, πάλιν*, εἰ μηδὲν διά τε τὴν προσηγορίαν τοῦ ὀνόματος καὶ διὰ* τὴν πολιτείαν* εὑρισκόμεθα* ἀδικοῦντες*, ὑμέτερον ἀγωνιᾶσαί* ἐστι μὴ ἀδίκως κολάζοντες τοὺς μὴ ἐλεγχομένους* τῇ δίκῃ κόλασιν ὀφλήσητε*. Ἐξ ὀνόματος μὲν γὰρ ἢ ἔπαινος ἢ κόλασις οὐκ ἂν εὐλόγως γένοιτο*, ἢν μή τι* ἐνάρετον ἢ φαῦλον διʼ ἔργων ἀποδείκνυσθαι δύνηται. Καὶ γὰρ τοὺς κατηγορουμένους ἐφʼ ὑμῶν πάντας πρὶν ἐλεγχθῆναι* οὐ τιμωρεῖτε, ἐφʼ ἡμῶν* δὲ τὸ ὄνομα ὡς ἔλεγχον λαμβάνετε, καίπερ, ὅσον γε ἐκ τοῦ ὀνόματος, τοὺς κατηγοροῦντας μᾶλλον κολάζειν ὀφείλετε*. Χριστιανοὶ γὰρ εἶναι κατηγορούμεθα· τὸ δὲ χρηστὸν μισεῖσθαι οὐ δίκαιον. Καὶ πάλιν ἐὰν μέν τις τῶν κατηγορουμένων ἔξαρνος γένηται τῇ φωνῇ μὴ εἶναι φήσας*, ἀφίετε αὐτὸν ὡς μηδὲν ἐλέγχειν ἔχοντες* ἁμαρτάνοντα, ἐὰν δέ τις ὁμολογήσῃ εἶναι, διὰ τὴν ὁμολογίαν κολάζετε· δέον* καὶ τὸν τοῦ ὁμολογοῦντος βίον εὐθύνειν καὶ τὸν τοῦ ἀρνουμένου, ὅπως διὰ τῶν πράξεων ὁποῖός ἐστιν ἕκαστος φαίνηται. Ὃν γὰρ τρόπον* παραλαβόντες τινὲς παρὰ τοῦ διδασκάλου Χριστοῦ μὴ ἀρνεῖσθαι* ἐξεταζόμενοι παρακελεύονται*, τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον κακῶς ζῶντες* ἴσως ἀφορμὰς* παρέχουσι τοῖς ἄλλως* καταλέγειν* τῶν πάντων Χριστιανῶν ἀσέβειαν καὶ ἀδικίαναἱρουμένοις. Οὐκ ὀρθῶς μὲν οὐδὲ* τοῦτο πράττεται. Καὶ γάρ* τοι φιλοσοφίας ὄνομα καὶ σχῆμα* ἐπιγράφονταί* τινες, οἳ οὐδὲν ἄξιον τῆς ὑποσχέσεως πράττουσι· γινώσκετε δʼ ὅτι καὶ οἱ τὰ ἐναντία δοξάσαντες καὶ δογματίσαντες τῶν παλαιῶν* τῷ ἑνὶ ὀνόματι προσαγορεύονται φιλόσοφοι. Καὶ τούτων τινὲς ἀθεότητα* ἐδίδαξαν, καὶ τὸν Δία ἀσελγῆ ἅμα τοῖς αὐτοῦ παισὶν οἱ γενόμενοι ποιηταὶ καταγγέλλουσι*· κἀκείνων* τὰ διδάγματα οἱ μετερχόμενοι οὐκ εἴργονται πρὸς ὑμῶν*, ἆθλα δὲ καὶ τιμὰς τοῖς εὐφώνως ὑβρίζουσι* τούτους* τίθετε.


ὑπάρχομεν : ὕπαρχος = subordinate X (?)

I'm not sure that 'excellent' should be the English translation of χρηστότατοι and/or χρηστὸν ...
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Re: Playing the dating game?

Post by mlinssen »

MrMacSon wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:02 am
GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:06 am
1. By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; and indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are most excellent people. 2. But as we do not think it just to beg to be acquitted on account of the name, if we be convicted as evil-doers, so, on the other hand, if we be found to have committed no offense, either in the matter of thus naming ourselves, or of our conduct as citizens, it is your part very earnestly to guard against incurring just punishment, by unjustly punishing those who are not convicted. 3. For from a name neither praise nor punishment could reasonably spring, unless something excellent or base in action be proved. 4. And those among yourselves who are accused you do not punish before they are convicted; but in our case you receive the name as proof against us, and this although, so far as the name goes, you ought rather to punish our accusers. 5. For we are accused of being Christians, and to hate what is excellent (Chrestian) is unjust. 6. Again, if any of the accused deny the name, and say that he is not a Christian, you acquit him, as having no evidence against him as a wrong-doer; but if any one acknowledge that he is a Christian, you punish him on account of this acknowledgment.


The Greek of Chapter IV of Justin's First Apology -


Ὀνόματος μὲν οὖν προσωνυμία* οὔτε ἀγαθὸν οὔτε κακὸν κρίνεται ἄνευ τῶν ὑποπιπτουσῶν* τῷ ὀνόματι πράξεων· ἐπεί*, ὅσον γε* ἐκ τοῦ κατηγορουμένου ἡμῶν ὀνόματος, χρηστότατοι* ὑπάρχομεν*. Ἀλλʼ ἐπεὶ οὐ τοῦτο* δίκαιον ἡγούμεθα*, διὰ τὸ ὄνομα, ἐὰν κακοὶ ἐλεγχώμεθα, αἰτεῖν ἀφίεσθαι, πάλιν*, εἰ μηδὲν διά τε τὴν προσηγορίαν τοῦ ὀνόματος καὶ διὰ* τὴν πολιτείαν* εὑρισκόμεθα* ἀδικοῦντες*, ὑμέτερον ἀγωνιᾶσαί* ἐστι μὴ ἀδίκως κολάζοντες τοὺς μὴ ἐλεγχομένους* τῇ δίκῃ κόλασιν ὀφλήσητε*. Ἐξ ὀνόματος μὲν γὰρ ἢ ἔπαινος ἢ κόλασις οὐκ ἂν εὐλόγως γένοιτο*, ἢν μή τι* ἐνάρετον ἢ φαῦλον διʼ ἔργων ἀποδείκνυσθαι δύνηται. Καὶ γὰρ τοὺς κατηγορουμένους ἐφʼ ὑμῶν πάντας πρὶν ἐλεγχθῆναι* οὐ τιμωρεῖτε, ἐφʼ ἡμῶν* δὲ τὸ ὄνομα ὡς ἔλεγχον λαμβάνετε, καίπερ, ὅσον γε ἐκ τοῦ ὀνόματος, τοὺς κατηγοροῦντας μᾶλλον κολάζειν ὀφείλετε*. Χριστιανοὶ γὰρ εἶναι κατηγορούμεθα· τὸ δὲ χρηστὸν μισεῖσθαι οὐ δίκαιον. Καὶ πάλιν ἐὰν μέν τις τῶν κατηγορουμένων ἔξαρνος γένηται τῇ φωνῇ μὴ εἶναι φήσας*, ἀφίετε αὐτὸν ὡς μηδὲν ἐλέγχειν ἔχοντες* ἁμαρτάνοντα, ἐὰν δέ τις ὁμολογήσῃ εἶναι, διὰ τὴν ὁμολογίαν κολάζετε· δέον* καὶ τὸν τοῦ ὁμολογοῦντος βίον εὐθύνειν καὶ τὸν τοῦ ἀρνουμένου, ὅπως διὰ τῶν πράξεων ὁποῖός ἐστιν ἕκαστος φαίνηται. Ὃν γὰρ τρόπον* παραλαβόντες τινὲς παρὰ τοῦ διδασκάλου Χριστοῦ μὴ ἀρνεῖσθαι* ἐξεταζόμενοι παρακελεύονται*, τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον κακῶς ζῶντες* ἴσως ἀφορμὰς* παρέχουσι τοῖς ἄλλως* καταλέγειν* τῶν πάντων Χριστιανῶν ἀσέβειαν καὶ ἀδικίαναἱρουμένοις. Οὐκ ὀρθῶς μὲν οὐδὲ* τοῦτο πράττεται. Καὶ γάρ* τοι φιλοσοφίας ὄνομα καὶ σχῆμα* ἐπιγράφονταί* τινες, οἳ οὐδὲν ἄξιον τῆς ὑποσχέσεως πράττουσι· γινώσκετε δʼ ὅτι καὶ οἱ τὰ ἐναντία δοξάσαντες καὶ δογματίσαντες τῶν παλαιῶν* τῷ ἑνὶ ὀνόματι προσαγορεύονται φιλόσοφοι. Καὶ τούτων τινὲς ἀθεότητα* ἐδίδαξαν, καὶ τὸν Δία ἀσελγῆ ἅμα τοῖς αὐτοῦ παισὶν οἱ γενόμενοι ποιηταὶ καταγγέλλουσι*· κἀκείνων* τὰ διδάγματα οἱ μετερχόμενοι οὐκ εἴργονται πρὸς ὑμῶν*, ἆθλα δὲ καὶ τιμὰς τοῖς εὐφώνως ὑβρίζουσι* τούτους* τίθετε.


ὑπάρχομεν : ὕπαρχος = subordinate X (?)

I'm not sure that 'excellent' should be the English translation of χρηστότατοι and/or χρηστὸν ...
No it shouldn't, it's an interpretation: χρηστότατοι simply is a substantive of the superlative of the adjective χρηστος: χρηστότατος = best. He is best, but right here it concerns plural: they are best, χρηστότατοι

ὑπάρχω - begin, take initiative

pres ind act 1st pl : ὑπάρχομεν

https://outils.biblissima.fr/fr/eulexis ... k&dict=LSJ

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Re: Justin Martyrs Writings Dates?

Post by mlinssen »

davidmartin wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:37 am Ode 11 from Greek:
the face of me was gladdened the breath of me by fragrance kindness of (the) Lord (χρηστότητος κ(υρίο)υ)
behold the workers of you good transformations make good from the evil to kindness (χρηστότητα)

Also Ode 41 mentions the Name and what might be Chrestos if we had the Greek:
Let us, therefore, all of us agree in the name of the Lord, and let us honor Him in His goodness

χρηστὸς (chrēstos) appears:
Matt 11:30 "For My yoke is easy (χρηστὸς) and My burden"
Luke 5:39 "And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better (χρηστὸς)’”
Luke 6:35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them. Lend to them without expecting to be repaid. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as children of the Most High, for he is kind (χρηστὸς) to those who are unthankful and wicked
1 Peter 2:3 "Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good (χρηστὸς)."
Blue Letter Bible is your friend

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/ ... rimary_0_1

Use a wildcard and look for χρηστ* - but on other occasions the diacritics may bite you nonetheless. Greek is a pain

Mat 11:30 - ὁ γὰρ ζυγός μου χρηστὸς καὶ τὸ φορτίον μου ἐλαφρόν ἐστιν

Luk 5:39 - καὶ οὐδεὶς πιὼν παλαιὸν θέλει νέον λέγει γάρ ὁ παλαιὸς χρηστός ἐστιν

Luk 6:35 - πλὴν ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν καὶ ἀγαθοποιεῖτε καὶ δανίζετε μηδὲν ἀπελπίζοντες καὶ ἔσται ὁ μισθὸς ὑμῶν πολύς καὶ ἔσεσθε υἱοὶ ὑψίστου ὅτι αὐτὸς χρηστός ἐστιν ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀχαρίστους καὶ πονηρούς

Rom 2:4 - ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει

Rom 3:12 - πάντες ἐξέκλιναν ἅμα ἠχρεώθησαν οὐκ ἔστιν ὁ ποιῶν χρηστότητα οὐκ ἔστιν ἕως ἑνός

Rom 11:22 - ἴδε οὖν χρηστότητα καὶ ἀποτομίαν θεοῦ ἐπὶ μὲν τοὺς πεσόντας ἀποτομία ἐπὶ δὲ σὲ χρηστότης θεοῦ ἐὰν ἐπιμένῃς τῇ χρηστότητι ἐπεὶ καὶ σὺ ἐκκοπήσῃ

Rom 16:18 - οἱ γὰρ τοιοῦτοι τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν Χριστῷ οὐ δουλεύουσιν ἀλλὰ τῇ ἑαυτῶν κοιλίᾳ καὶ διὰ τῆς χρηστολογίας καὶ εὐλογίας ἐξαπατῶσιν τὰς καρδίας τῶν ἀκάκων

1Co 13:4 - ἡ ἀγάπη μακροθυμεῖ χρηστεύεται ἡ ἀγάπη οὐ ζηλοῖ ἡ ἀγάπη οὐ περπερεύεται οὐ φυσιοῦται

1Co 15:33 - μὴ πλανᾶσθε φθείρουσιν ἤθη χρηστὰ ὁμιλίαι κακαί

2Co 6:6 - ἐν ἁγνότητι ἐν γνώσει ἐν μακροθυμίᾳ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ ἐν ἀγάπῃ ἀνυποκρίτῳ

Gal 5:22 - ὁ δὲ καρπὸς τοῦ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἀγάπη χαρά εἰρήνη μακροθυμία χρηστότης ἀγαθωσύνη πίστις

Eph 2:7 - ἵνα ἐνδείξηται ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις τὸ ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐφ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

Eph 4:32 - γίνεσθε δὲ εἰς ἀλλήλους χρηστοί εὔσπλαγχνοι χαριζόμενοι ἑαυτοῖς καθὼς καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἐν Χριστῷ ἐχαρίσατο ὑμῖν

Col 3:12 - ἐνδύσασθε οὖν ὡς ἐκλεκτοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ ἅγιοι καὶ ἠγαπημένοι σπλάγχνα οἰκτιρμοῦ χρηστότητα ταπεινοφροσύνην πραΰτητα μακροθυμίαν

Tit 3:4 - ὅτε δὲ ἡ χρηστότης καὶ ἡ φιλανθρωπία ἐπεφάνη τοῦ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν θεοῦ

1Pe 2:3 - εἰ ἐγεύσασθε ὅτι χρηστὸς ὁ κύριος

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mlinssen
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Even the NT is full of xrhstos and hardly ever mentions xristos

Post by mlinssen »

mlinssen wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:40 am
Blue Letter Bible is your friend

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/ ... rimary_0_1

Use a wildcard and look for χρηστ* - but on other occasions the diacritics may bite you nonetheless. Greek is a pain

Mat 11:30 - ὁ γὰρ ζυγός μου χρηστὸς καὶ τὸ φορτίον μου ἐλαφρόν ἐστιν

Luk 5:39 - καὶ οὐδεὶς πιὼν παλαιὸν θέλει νέον λέγει γάρ ὁ παλαιὸς χρηστός ἐστιν

Luk 6:35 - πλὴν ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν καὶ ἀγαθοποιεῖτε καὶ δανίζετε μηδὲν ἀπελπίζοντες καὶ ἔσται ὁ μισθὸς ὑμῶν πολύς καὶ ἔσεσθε υἱοὶ ὑψίστου ὅτι αὐτὸς χρηστός ἐστιν ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀχαρίστους καὶ πονηρούς

Rom 2:4 - ἢ τοῦ πλούτου τῆς χρηστότητος αὐτοῦ καὶ τῆς ἀνοχῆς καὶ τῆς μακροθυμίας καταφρονεῖς ἀγνοῶν ὅτι τὸ χρηστὸν τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς μετάνοιάν σε ἄγει

Rom 3:12 - πάντες ἐξέκλιναν ἅμα ἠχρεώθησαν οὐκ ἔστιν ὁ ποιῶν χρηστότητα οὐκ ἔστιν ἕως ἑνός

Rom 11:22 - ἴδε οὖν χρηστότητα καὶ ἀποτομίαν θεοῦ ἐπὶ μὲν τοὺς πεσόντας ἀποτομία ἐπὶ δὲ σὲ χρηστότης θεοῦ ἐὰν ἐπιμένῃς τῇ χρηστότητι ἐπεὶ καὶ σὺ ἐκκοπήσῃ

Rom 16:18 - οἱ γὰρ τοιοῦτοι τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν Χριστῷ οὐ δουλεύουσιν ἀλλὰ τῇ ἑαυτῶν κοιλίᾳ καὶ διὰ τῆς χρηστολογίας καὶ εὐλογίας ἐξαπατῶσιν τὰς καρδίας τῶν ἀκάκων

1Co 13:4 - ἡ ἀγάπη μακροθυμεῖ χρηστεύεται ἡ ἀγάπη οὐ ζηλοῖ ἡ ἀγάπη οὐ περπερεύεται οὐ φυσιοῦται

1Co 15:33 - μὴ πλανᾶσθε φθείρουσιν ἤθη χρηστὰ ὁμιλίαι κακαί

2Co 6:6 - ἐν ἁγνότητι ἐν γνώσει ἐν μακροθυμίᾳ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ ἐν ἀγάπῃ ἀνυποκρίτῳ

Gal 5:22 - ὁ δὲ καρπὸς τοῦ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἀγάπη χαρά εἰρήνη μακροθυμία χρηστότης ἀγαθωσύνη πίστις

Eph 2:7 - ἵνα ἐνδείξηται ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις τὸ ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ ἐν χρηστότητι ἐφ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

Eph 4:32 - γίνεσθε δὲ εἰς ἀλλήλους χρηστοί εὔσπλαγχνοι χαριζόμενοι ἑαυτοῖς καθὼς καὶ ὁ θεὸς ἐν Χριστῷ ἐχαρίσατο ὑμῖν

Col 3:12 - ἐνδύσασθε οὖν ὡς ἐκλεκτοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ ἅγιοι καὶ ἠγαπημένοι σπλάγχνα οἰκτιρμοῦ χρηστότητα ταπεινοφροσύνην πραΰτητα μακροθυμίαν

Tit 3:4 - ὅτε δὲ ἡ χρηστότης καὶ ἡ φιλανθρωπία ἐπεφάνη τοῦ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν θεοῦ

1Pe 2:3 - εἰ ἐγεύσασθε ὅτι χρηστὸς ὁ κύριος

Has anyone gone through the trouble of countering these with their Χριστ- equivalents? Not only Christos / Xristos but also Chrisma / Xrisma?

Oh wait! 7 occurrences of those, versus 19 occurrences of chrestos

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Re: Justin Martyrs Writings Dates?

Post by mlinssen »

Jair wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:47 pm I come bearing more questions. I probably should have bookmarked the thread but I didn’t, alas, but I was reading a thread here recently where the topic of dating Justin Martyrs writings came up and it was the first time I had seen anyone suggest (significantly, let alone any) later dates for his writings than what has been considered consensus. I am wondering what findings in the text are driving these recent conversations?

I’ve skimmed through an online translation of First Apology twice, and it’s long, so I don’t remember everything and my details might be off a bit but there was one thing in particular… well two things actually.

Regarding very late date propositions, I find that unlikely because First Apology doesn’t consider the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be equals. I would think that this would make it very unlikely to be written after the Constantinople-Nicene Council in 380. Surely?

The second point that gives me pause to consider late dates is that I recall Justin relaying a tradition in First Apology where Jesus is resurrected on the day after the crucifixion, in other words, written before the 3 days tradition.

Those are my thoughts, albeit far from scholarly and likely somewhat religiously biased. I’m curious though, and perhaps I read the posts wrong and nobody really considers late dates for Justin Martyr but I figured if so, the topic itself makes for some interesting discussion.
The best evidence for Justin being either interpolated or very late is the fact that he attests to only one gospel before attesting (much later) to merely plural gospels - while never naming any of them.
Yet what do we find in his text as well?

And there is Marcion, a man of Pontus, who is even at this day alive, and teaching his disciples to believe in some other god greater than the Creator. And he, by the aid of the devils, has caused many of every nation to speak blasphemies, and to deny that God is the maker of this universe, and to assert that some other being, greater than He, has done greater works. All who take their opinions from these men, are, as we before said, called Christians; just as also those who do not agree with the philosophers in their doctrines, have yet in common with them the name of philosophers given to them

Μαρκίωνα δέ τινα Ποντικόν, ὃς καὶ νῦν ἔτι ἐστὶ διδάσκων τοὺς πειθομένους, ἄλλον τινὰ νομίζειν μείζονα τοῦ δημιουργοῦ θεόν· ὃς κατὰ πᾶν γένος ἀνθρώπων διὰ τῆς τῶν δαιμόνων συλλήψεως πολλοὺς πεποίηκε βλασφημίας λέγειν καὶ ἀρνεῖσθαι τὸν ποιητὴν τοῦδε τοῦ παντὸς θεόν, ἄλλον δέ τινα, ὡς ὄντα μείζονα, τὰ μείζονα παρὰ τοῦτον ὁμολογεῖν πεποιηκέναι. 6. πάντες οἱ ἀπὸ τούτων ὁρμώμενοι, ὡς ἔφημεν, Χριστιανοὶ καλοῦνται, ὃν τρόπον καὶ οἱ οὐ κοινωνοῦντες τῶν αὐτῶν δογμάτων τοῖς φιλοσόφοις τὸ ἐπικατηγορούμενον ὄνομα τῆς φιλοσοφίας κοινὸν ἔχουσιν

Justin Martyr First Apology chapter 26.5

How can Sweet Jus speak of Christians (or Chrestians) when the word didn't exist but in Acts and 1 Peter?
And Sweet Jus most certainly doesn't mention any letters are all?
Isn't Paul supposed to be so very early?
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