Investigating the roots of western civilization (ye olde BC&H forum of IIDB lives on...)
https://earlywritings.com/forum/
I remember perfectly that it was a quote of Philo done on this forum by Andrew Criddle, in answer to my question about a Jewish scholar who argued the same point.
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:09 am So the scholar Friedlander about Philo:
https://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/gnos/jgnos.htmThe Cainites venerated Cain as the divine power, rejected all moral conventions, and rejected the Law along with its God. And what, asks Friedlander, is 'Christian' about that? The Alexandrian school provides the most plausible link for the origin of this heresy. Indeed, the Cainite sect was already well known to Philo. Friedlander quotes in this connection On the Posterity and Exile of Cain. In this text 'Cain' is a symbol of heresy, and the specifics of the heresy represented by him are such that one can only conclude that Philo is arguing against a philosophizing sect characterized not only by construcfing myths contrary to the truth, but by gross antinomianism. Philo speaks against these heretics precisely as Irenaeus speaks against the Gnostics. There can be no doubt that the heretics combated by Philo are the forerunners of the Christian Gnostics later combated by the church fathers.
(my bold)
Alas a witness of true Gnostics !!!
Thanks. Will follow through. So far, from Pearson's citations, I have the following reading ahead of me:
this is what I was referring originally as Andrew's quote, i.e. what would be the textual evidence of pre-Christian anti-demiurgists, according to Friedlander:neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 11:48 pmThanks. Will follow through. So far, from Pearson's citations, I have the following reading ahead of me:
andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 11:32 amThis may possibly be relevant posterity of cainGiuseppe wrote:I should find that passage in Philo where Philo is polemic with contemporary sectarians (not Romans or gentiles) who seem to despise the god of the Jews...If the Odes are directed against Gnostics and/or Marcionites then a date after 100 CE for the Odes would follow.
https://books.google.it/books?id=liZLAw ... cs&f=falseAndrew Criddle(52) Since, therefore, every city consists of houses and inhabitants, and laws, the houses, in Cain's case, are the reasons which he alleges to prove his point; by which, as from a wall, he fights against the persuasive attacks of his enemies; inventing fabulous devices against the truth. The inhabitants are the companions of impiety, ungodliness, self-love, haughtiness, falsehood, vain opinions; the men wise in their own conceit, the men who know not wisdom as relating to truth, the men who are full of ignorance, and stupidity, and folly; and all the other similar and kindred evils. The laws are, lawlessness, injustice, inequality, intemperance, boldness, folly, insolence, immoderate indulgence in pleasure, and innumerable appetites in despite of nature. (53) Now of such a city as this, every impious man is found to be a builder in his own miserable soul, until God deliberately causes complete and great confusion to their sophistical Arts.
I can buy the ebook on Google for about fifty bucks or I can download the ebook for free on archive.org. --- decisions decisions....
It's really hard not to read into this that he's addressing Magdalene here (the one the father's 'forget' to mention, the great 'anathema' to the apostolic men, of the G. Phillip?)However, it was not by means of visions alone which were seen, and words which were proclaimed, but also in actual works, that He was beheld by the prophets, in order that through them He might prefigure and show forth future events beforehand. For this reason did Hosea the prophet take “a wife of whoredoms,” prophesying by means of the action ... (Jesus performs like acts)
... And for this reason, Paul declares that the “unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband.” ...
... That which had been done typically through his actions by the prophet, the apostle proves to have been done truly by Christ in the Church...
... for this reason, by means of the marriage of Moses, was shown forth the marriage of the Word...
... Thus also did Rahab the harlot, while condemning herself, inasmuch as she was a Gentile, guilty of all sins, nevertheless receive the three spies, who were spying out all the land, and hid them at her home; [which three were] doubtless [a type of] the Father and the Son, together with the Holy Spirit. And when the entire city in which she lived fell to ruins at the sounding of the seven trumpets, Rahab the harlot was preserved, when all was over, together with all her house, through faith of the scarlet sign; as the Lord also declared to those who did not receive His advent,—the Pharisees, no doubt, nullify the sign of the scarlet thread, which meant the passover, and the redemption and exodus of the people from Egypt,—when He said, “The publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of heaven before you.”
Itching to get into the original text here, which section is this?davidmartin wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:53 am ML i will look forward to James Audlin's new book wonder what's in it?
Is this of interest regarding marriage themes relating to Jesus, from Ireneaus
All from the same section just cutting out some cruft
It's really hard not to read into this that he's addressing Magdalene here (the one the father's 'forget' to mention, the great 'anathema' to the apostolic men, of the G. Phillip?)However, it was not by means of visions alone which were seen, and words which were proclaimed, but also in actual works, that He was beheld by the prophets, in order that through them He might prefigure and show forth future events beforehand. For this reason did Hosea the prophet take “a wife of whoredoms,” prophesying by means of the action ... (Jesus performs like acts)
... And for this reason, Paul declares that the “unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband.” ...
... That which had been done typically through his actions by the prophet, the apostle proves to have been done truly by Christ in the Church...
... for this reason, by means of the marriage of Moses, was shown forth the marriage of the Word...
... Thus also did Rahab the harlot, while condemning herself, inasmuch as she was a Gentile, guilty of all sins, nevertheless receive the three spies, who were spying out all the land, and hid them at her home; [which three were] doubtless [a type of] the Father and the Son, together with the Holy Spirit. And when the entire city in which she lived fell to ruins at the sounding of the seven trumpets, Rahab the harlot was preserved, when all was over, together with all her house, through faith of the scarlet sign; as the Lord also declared to those who did not receive His advent,—the Pharisees, no doubt, nullify the sign of the scarlet thread, which meant the passover, and the redemption and exodus of the people from Egypt,—when He said, “The publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of heaven before you.”
Guilty of all sins - in Mark possessed of 7, all, demons
Saved because she proclaimed his passover, resurrection as per the gospels?
Could he be restating some earlier story or account that his readers would know what he was referring to?
He had the perfect chance to mention Magdalene here and he didn't so I think in roundabout way he actually does
If he was teaching this interpretation what were others teaching? Is it the worst kept secret ever
Maybe the story of the wife that Marcus the magician seduced was a type of this same story