Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

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Secret Alias
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Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by Secret Alias »

Any answers?
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by mlinssen »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:58 am Any answers?

John 4:5 ἔρχεται (He comes) οὖν (therefore) εἰς (to) πόλιν (a city) τῆς (-) Σαμαρείας (of Samaria) λεγομένην (called) Συχὰρ (Sychar), πλησίον (near) τοῦ (the) χωρίου (plot of ground) ὃ (that) ἔδωκεν (had given) Ἰακὼβ (Jacob) ‹τῷ› (to) Ἰωσὴφ (Joseph), τῷ (the) υἱῷ (son) αὐτοῦ (of him).
6 ἦν (Was) δὲ (now) ἐκεῖ (there) πηγὴ (the well) τοῦ (-) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob). ὁ (-) οὖν (Therefore) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus), κεκοπιακὼς (being wearied) ἐκ (from) τῆς (the) ὁδοιπορίας (journey), ἐκαθέζετο (was sitting) οὕτως (thus) ἐπὶ (at) τῇ (the) πηγῇ (well). ὥρα (The hour) ἦν (was) ὡς (about) ἕκτη (the sixth).

You're right, but there's more. In the genealogies nothing gets declined it seems (haven't checked every word) but Iakob doesn't always get declined either.
Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26, Luke 20:37, John 4:6, 12, Acts 3:13, 7:8, 32, 46, Romans 11:26

Oddly, a few of those are prefixed with Theos/n.
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:58 am Any answers?
Probably because of the greek ending "-ος". Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφ are indeclinable. What's with Ιώσηπος?
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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

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There are forms Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφος. In fact Ἰάκωβ is the normal way of representing 'Jacob.'
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by mlinssen »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 1:40 pm There are forms Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφος. In fact Ἰάκωβ is the normal way of representing 'Jacob.'
I have picked the nominative forms when they're used in dative or genitive and I skipped the rest.
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by gryan »

Could Ἰακώβ vs Ἰάκωβος be like Ἱερουσαλήμ vs Ἱεροσόλυμα-- Hebrew form, earthly/old, vs. Greek form, heavenly sometimes? Heaven and earth belong to Ἰάκωβος.
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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

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Ἰακώβ is the original form from the LXX. Ἰάκωβος is a form developed for declination.
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by mlinssen »

Secret Alias wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 11:37 am Ἰακώβ is the original form from the LXX. Ἰάκωβος is a form developed for declination.

Mark 12:26 Περὶ (Concerning) δὲ (now) τῶν (the) νεκρῶν (dead), ὅτι (that) ἐγείρονται (they rise), οὐκ (not) ἀνέγνωτε (have you read) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) βίβλῳ (book) Μωϋσέως (of Moses), ἐπὶ (on) τοῦ (the) Βάτου (bush), πῶς (how) εἶπεν (spoke) αὐτῷ (to him) ὁ (-) Θεὸς (God), λέγων (saying), ‘Ἐγὼ (I am) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἀβραὰμ (of Abraham), καὶ (and) ‹ὁ› (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰσαὰκ (of Isaac), καὶ (and) ‹ὁ› (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob)’d?

Interesting, reminiscent of the Tanakh isn't it?

Matthew 22"32 ‘Ἐγώ (I) εἰμι (am) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἀβραὰμ (of Abraham) καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰσαὰκ (of Isaac) καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob)?’c οὐκ (Not) ἔστιν (He is) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) νεκρῶν (of the dead), ἀλλὰ (but) ζώντων (of the living).”

Likewise. Perhaps check the others?
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Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?

Post by Secret Alias »

There is no noun declination in Hebrew. Has something to do with it undoubtedly.
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