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Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 8:58 am
by Secret Alias
Any answers?
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:27 am
by mlinssen
John 4:5 ἔρχεται (He comes) οὖν (therefore) εἰς (to) πόλιν (a city) τῆς (-) Σαμαρείας (of Samaria) λεγομένην (called) Συχὰρ (Sychar), πλησίον (near) τοῦ (the) χωρίου (plot of ground) ὃ (that) ἔδωκεν (had given) Ἰακὼβ (Jacob) ‹τῷ› (to) Ἰωσὴφ (Joseph), τῷ (the) υἱῷ (son) αὐτοῦ (of him).
6 ἦν (Was) δὲ (now) ἐκεῖ (there) πηγὴ (the well) τοῦ (-) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob). ὁ (-) οὖν (Therefore) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus), κεκοπιακὼς (being wearied) ἐκ (from) τῆς (the) ὁδοιπορίας (journey), ἐκαθέζετο (was sitting) οὕτως (thus) ἐπὶ (at) τῇ (the) πηγῇ (well). ὥρα (The hour) ἦν (was) ὡς (about) ἕκτη (the sixth).
You're right, but there's more. In the genealogies nothing gets declined it seems (haven't checked every word) but Iakob doesn't always get declined either.
Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26, Luke 20:37, John 4:6, 12, Acts 3:13, 7:8, 32, 46, Romans 11:26
Oddly, a few of those are prefixed with Theos/n.
Fine find Stephan, intriguing
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:35 am
by Kunigunde Kreuzerin
Probably because of the greek ending "-ος". Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφ are indeclinable. What's with Ιώσηπος?
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:40 pm
by Secret Alias
There are forms Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφος. In fact Ἰάκωβ is the normal way of representing 'Jacob.'
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 2:08 pm
by mlinssen
Secret Alias wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 1:40 pm
There are forms Ἰάκωβ and Ἰωσὴφος. In fact Ἰάκωβ is the normal way of representing 'Jacob.'
I have picked the nominative forms when they're used in dative or genitive and I skipped the rest.
Perhaps it is infotaining to disclose that I'm fluent in 3 languages, used to be fluent in 3 others, had 5 years of Latin and 4 years of Greek in Grammar school, and have some knowledge of Coptic as well
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 3:06 am
by gryan
Could Ἰακώβ vs Ἰάκωβος be like Ἱερουσαλήμ vs Ἱεροσόλυμα-- Hebrew form, earthly/old, vs. Greek form, heavenly sometimes? Heaven and earth belong to Ἰάκωβος.
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 11:37 am
by Secret Alias
Ἰακώβ is the original form from the LXX. Ἰάκωβος is a form developed for declination.
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:23 pm
by mlinssen
Secret Alias wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:37 am
Ἰακώβ is the original form from the LXX. Ἰάκωβος is a form developed for declination.
Mark 12:26 Περὶ (Concerning) δὲ (now) τῶν (the) νεκρῶν (dead), ὅτι (that) ἐγείρονται (they rise), οὐκ (not) ἀνέγνωτε (have you read) ἐν (in) τῇ (the) βίβλῳ (book) Μωϋσέως (of Moses), ἐπὶ (on) τοῦ (the) Βάτου (bush), πῶς (how) εἶπεν (spoke) αὐτῷ (to him) ὁ (-) Θεὸς (God), λέγων (saying), ‘Ἐγὼ (I am) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἀβραὰμ (of Abraham), καὶ (and) ‹ὁ› (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰσαὰκ (of Isaac), καὶ (and) ‹ὁ› (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob)’d?
Interesting, reminiscent of the Tanakh isn't it?
Matthew 22"32 ‘Ἐγώ (I) εἰμι (am) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἀβραὰμ (of Abraham) καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰσαὰκ (of Isaac) καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) Ἰακώβ (of Jacob)?’c οὐκ (Not) ἔστιν (He is) ὁ (the) Θεὸς (God) νεκρῶν (of the dead), ἀλλὰ (but) ζώντων (of the living).”
Likewise. Perhaps check the others?
Re: Why Does Ἰάκωβος Decline But Ἰωσὴφ Doesn't in the Gospel?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 12:28 pm
by Secret Alias
There is no noun declination in Hebrew. Has something to do with it undoubtedly.