Evidence of crucifixion in outer space in Acta Archelai

[Giuseppe]

Why is this "outer space" thing so important? The obsession for making Christianity look stupid is unprofessional

I understand your point, however I think that the "outer space" thing is important because it is the best description of an exalted event. Compare the crucifixion in outer space with a remote crucifixion in an obscure past: how could the latter crucifixion be an exalted event in comparison with the former?

For 'exalted event' I mean something as the following images, gained googling "cross of light":

https://www.google.com/search?q=cross+o ... 3&dpr=1.56

By seeing these images, do you think that they refer to an earthly event?


I have written here:

A reason in support of (A =[the view that a radical Paulinist didn't write Mark 14-16]) is that the crucifixion for Paul was a so exalted event that it couldn't be reduced to a so 'human too human' appearance, not even as mere appearance. It could be alluded, not even described.

[maryhelena]

Why is this "outer space" thing so important? The obsession for making Christianity look stupid is unprofessional

I understand your point, however I think that the "outer space" thing is important because it is the best description of an exalted event. Compare the crucifixion in outer space with a remote crucifixion in an obscure past: how could the latter crucifixion be an exalted event in comparison with the former?

Giuseppe - this outer space crucifixion idea is intellectual fantasy. It's an idea that will not result in toppling the historical Jesus idea. An historical claim cannot be nullified by offering intellectual allusions.

That the Pauline writing can be interpreted to be referencing a 'spiritual' crucifixion does not equate to a crucifixion in outer space. These writings talk about Christ being 'in you'. Internal not outer space. It's how the mind works - how the 'spirit' within works. Intellectual evolution. The Word became Flesh says gJohn - not some illusionary spirit being in the sky - but ideas that become us. We make our ideas 'flesh' by translating or transforming them into physical realities. There is no mystery here - it's philosophical talk re how our human nature functions.

[Giuseppe]

These writings talk about Christ being 'in you'. Internal not outer space.

The "in you" thing is modern new age. I want for Paul a more concrete reality. A concrete reality in outer space.


I think that the basic difference between my view and the view of the readers (as Mary Helena) comes to the interpretation of the following Pauline passage (1 Corinthians 1:23-24):

23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

• I interpret it as AUT-AUT: if the crucifixion of Jesus is the "power of God and the wisdom of God", then it is not, not even as mere appearance, "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

• Mary Helena and other readers in this forum interpret it as ET-ET: the crucifixion of Jesus was both "power of God and the wisdom of God" and "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

The difference is crucial in interpreting Paul.

Who follows my view, is obliged to think that none sincere Paulinist could describe the crucifixion, not even in allegorical terms, as a mere human event, even only in appearance.

Who disagrees with me on this point is obliged to concede that for Paul the crucifixion was not a so exalted event, afterall, if at least in appearance it resembled a mere human event.

[maryhelena]

These writings talk about Christ being 'in you'. Internal not outer space.

The "in you" thing is modern new age. I want for Paul a more concrete reality. A concrete reality in outer space.

A concrete reality in outer space...........methinks the only way you'll get that is via a modern new age space ship.....

[Giuseppe]

You should deal with this my post:

I think that the basic difference between my view and the view of the readers (as Mary Helena) comes to the interpretation of the following Pauline passage (1 Corinthians 1:23-24):

23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

• I interpret it as AUT-AUT: if the crucifixion of Jesus is the "power of God and the wisdom of God", then it is not, not even as mere appearance, "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

• Mary Helena and other readers in this forum interpret it as ET-ET: the crucifixion of Jesus was both "power of God and the wisdom of God" and "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

The difference is crucial in interpreting Paul.

Who follows my view, is obliged to think that none sincere Paulinist could describe the crucifixion, not even in allegorical terms, as a mere human event, even only in appearance.

Who disagrees with me on this point is obliged to concede that for Paul the crucifixion was not a so exalted event, afterall, if at least in appearance it resembled a mere human event.

[Sinouhe]

Heaven is an important place where all sorts of things can happen in the Second Temple Judaism.

[maryhelena]

Heaven is an important place where all sorts of things can happen in the Second Temple Judaism.

In the mind......

[Sinouhe]

Heaven is an important place where all sorts of things can happen in the Second Temple Judaism.

In the mind......

Yes in the minds of those Jews but I think they really thought it was happening or would happen in heaven.

[maryhelena]

You should deal with this my post:

I think that the basic difference between my view and the view of the readers (as Mary Helena) comes to the interpretation of the following Pauline passage (1 Corinthians 1:23-24):

23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

A flesh and blood crucifixion is a stumbling block for anyone claiming to be a humanitarian - it has no value whatsoever. Imputing value to such a crucifixion (as is sometimes interpreted to be the case for NT writers) is despicable, contemptible. The only possible value a crucifixion can have is to change the context from flesh and blood to a 'spiritual' crucifixion. Not outer space - which is nonsensical - but an intellectual crucifixion of outdated ideas. Heresy - that's the stuff that enables regeneration, new life etc.

• I interpret it as AUT-AUT: if the crucifixion of Jesus is the "power of God and the wisdom of God", then it is not, not even as mere appearance, "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

• Mary Helena and other readers in this forum interpret it as ET-ET: the crucifixion of Jesus was both "power of God and the wisdom of God" and "a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles"

The difference is crucial in interpreting Paul.

Who follows my view, is obliged to think that none sincere Paulinist could describe the crucifixion, not even in allegorical terms, as a mere human event, even only in appearance.

Who disagrees with me on this point is obliged to concede that for Paul the crucifixion was not a so exalted event, afterall, if at least in appearance it resembled a mere human event.

Christianity - viewed as a philosophy of the mind - is the most powerful force in human evolution. Viewed as a flesh and blood crucifixion or an outer space fantasy - it has no value for human development. Happily - the mind cannot be enslaved and heretics are always at the ready, willing and able to nail the intellectual nonsense to it's cross.

[maryhelena]

Heaven is an important place where all sorts of things can happen in the Second Temple Judaism.

In the mind......

Yes in the minds of those Jews but I think they really thought it was happening or would happen in heaven.

But the point now is to try and grasp what their time conditioned thinking means for us today. Angels and Demons are yesterday's news.....Perhaps interesting for research into ideas - but we should not be using ideas of 2000 years ago as a master plan for either living or thinking in today's troubled world. i.e. update time