zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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GakuseiDon
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by GakuseiDon »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:47 amStephen Young seems to be a historicist. Where is the presumed fun?
He's take on the historical Jesus looks very interesting:

As with other independent experts who traffic in myth, Jesus’s mythmaking also coordinates with his revelatory claims, demonstrations of textual mastery, prophesying, dispensing of enigmatic or esoteric teachings, and works of power.

To approach Jesus through the lens of myth is to de-center him. He emerges as one among other Jewish mythmakers who engaged in a recognizable repertoire of practices. This focus on the social workings of myth also sheds new light on how early narrative literature about Jesus represents his infamous conflicts with other Jewish figures. Instead of taking how these sources depict Jesus’s interactions with Jewish opponents at face value, we can redescribe his characterizations of them in terms of the competitive strategies a newly arrived independent expert in a field (Jesus) would be expected to mobilize against relatively more established independent experts (e.g., Pharisees) and also institutionally-authorized figures (e.g., priests and Sadducees).

I've seen the expression "independent experts" pop up a few times now. Young applies it also to Paul as well. "Revelatory claims, demonstrations of textual mastery, prophesying, dispensing of enigmatic or esoteric teachings, and works of power" might well describe Paul. Sounds very much like modern-day cult leaders.
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by Giuseppe »

There is this (especially American) trend to consider only Paul as the fatidic mythmaker, when really I see no difference at all between Paul and the author of Hebrews and 1 Clement and Barnabas and Odes of Solomon etc from this point of view.
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by StephenGoranson »

Americans speak fatidic?
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by StephenGoranson »

The "Next Quest" titles are brief. I would hope that, in addition to a schedule, abstracts will be made available, as I may wish to choose which talks--I'm guessing not all--interest me to tune in.
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by mlinssen »

Giuseppe wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:47 am
mlinssen wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:15 pm Promises to be a very, very entertaining session
Are you sure?

Stephen Young seems to be a historicist. Where is the presumed fun?
"To approach Jesus through the lens of myth is to de-center him. He emerges as one among other Jewish mythmakers who engaged in a recognizable repertoire of practices."

The fun is in the extent to which narratives are created and the existing ones bent or even broken, in order to allow for an HJ
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by mlinssen »

Well, I can be brief. One and a half hour in though, I'll wait a bit longer
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by mlinssen »

Well, James Crossley has demonstrated his way of thinking, motivating and general direction:
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And apparently the answer to that is extremely easy and straightforward:
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Even worse, I'm now listening to an apparently serious and slightly miffed Wongi Park who appears to support the recently proposed theory that 19th century Germany made a case for Markan Priority just because so Matthew could be relegated to the back. He added something about Catholicism and Protestantism but I could hear him over my own ROFLing

Matthew Thiessen was interesting and balanced though, I couldn't focus with Crossley - kept asking myself where he was going with any of it
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by mlinssen »

Well, absolutely wowed by Paula Fredriksen. I really don't like her papers and want even going to watch, but fortunately fate decided otherwise

None of us will ever "find" an JH he disagrees with.
And boy, Faustus contra Augustine - never heard of it, yet going to consume it all straight away
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Re: zoom conf. "Next Quest for the Historical Jesus"

Post by mlinssen »

I saw attempts to develop different angles to an HJ quest, one of which is possession. I saw a terrific story about Faustus versus Augustine which demonstrated that Chrestianity protesting Christianity just have gone on from late 1st till 5th CE at the very least. And I saw Wongi Park going berserk over an alleged racism (and anti-Semitism) driving the motive behind 19 the CE German efforts (and very compelling successes, I add) - and he actually inquired whether Marjan priority could be reversed

And that's about it, I saw most presentations but lost interest in many

Takeaway? A few hundred attendants, not too bad yet I'm grateful for the Augustine story. No need for any further quest, that topic got used as elephant in the room.
Given the face on the flyer, all this was utterly disappointing

Michael Barber is all talk and no content. He may become a star in the coming years. Especially Chris Keith had a really hard time keeping a straight face
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