The tempting of Jesus by Satan

[lsayre]

I find the idea that atheists are terrified that there is a God to be a rather common self justifying delusion (or confirmation bias) among believers.

All of this is a moot point as the creation of the universe ex nihilo is not even what is being (literally) discussed in the first couple lines of Genesis. Rather it discusses a reformation or transformation of extant matter. Witness the work of James D. Tabor (and his book titled 'The Book Of Genesis') as to this...

At the core of all of such argument is the age old question of whether consciousness precedes (or transcends beyond) existence. In effect this involves questioning whether reality itself is thereby actually fully real, or if it is in any way malleable by or to some form of conscious will.

Quantum Physicists such as Sean Carroll question a distinct "beginning", arguing that such a 'singularity' event is merely evidence that the theories of General and Special Relativity are incomplete math models. And further evincing their incompleteness by emphasizing their incompatibility with quantum mechanics. His justification stems from a perspective that infinities are places where the extant math of Einstein breaks down, and any more proper math model must thereby exclude infinities whereby to not break down. Any contention that the current lack of such a model points to definitive evidence of a God is merely a sign of some form of self gratifying confirmation bias coming down on the side favoring that consciousness somehow precedes and/or transcends (or some might suggest, infuses all of) existence.

[schillingklaus]

There is no such thing as Satan in Qumran except the one of Job and Zachariah, which is a loyal agent of the Jewish god.

[lsayre]

arguing as to how many angels might sit on the head of a pin.

Yeah, that is what the forum is for.

My comment was an observation of comparison between the trivial mind game infighting over the nature of evil as witnessed between the various of participating groups associated with the thread referenced ancient texts, as compared to the triviality of a middle age perspective involving the angels on a pin. It was not in regard to any level of modern day reflection upon this past history, such as might be observed within the confines of this forum.

[John T]

I find the idea that atheists are terrified that there is a God to be a rather common self justifying delusion (or confirmation bias) among believers.

Yes, your idea, (non-supportive) would be correct if that was the case. However, there are very few real atheists who are willing to debate ex nihilo regarding the big band theory.

Instead they mock those who dare ask and label them as stupid young earth creationists.

https://www.atheistallianceamerica.org/ ... m-nothing/

Of course I could be wrong and you are indeed that rare fearless atheist (if real atheists do exist) who is not terrified to discuss the metaphysics of the universe.

Even Christopher Hitchens trembled when going there.

By all means prove me wrong.

[John T]

See how quickly these threads can go from a pseudo-quest in Biblical criticism to using that as a cover to attack Christians and promote atheism?

Someone starts a thread and makes an assertion but when a legitimate challenge comes up they do not respond. Meaning, they aren't really interested in their subject, just trying to get validation.

"Under the system of those at Qumran, Belial/Satan was the "lord of this world". rgprice

Of course, that is false and proven so but let's not go there. Instead, let's ignore, nay, mock those who point it out.

Wet, lather, rinse, and repeat.

[ABuddhist]

Someone starts a thread and makes an assertion but when a legitimate challenge comes up they do not respond. Meaning, they aren't really interested in their subject, just trying to get validation.

It is a major jump to go from "does not respond to a challenge" to "is only pretending to be interested in the subject". Why are you so inclined to make such uncharitable jumps?

[John T]

Someone starts a thread and makes an assertion but when a legitimate challenge comes up they do not respond. Meaning, they aren't really interested in their subject, just trying to get validation.

It is a major jump to go from "does not respond to a challenge" to "is only pretending to be interested in the subject". Why are you so inclined to make such uncharitable jumps?

*News flash to ABuddhist.
rgprice doesn't respond to you either. He/she only responds to those who stroke his ego. But that doesn't stop isayre (a.k.a. "off topic for sure") or you from taking this opportunity to once again hijack this thread and trash Christianity, you got egos to stroke too. It's not about Biblical criticism, rather only about scoring points. As a constant attention seeker, you might have more success if you actually researched the subject a little before jumping at the chance to insult those who graciously try to educate you.
Do you see the pattern yet?

Wet, lather, rinse, and repeat.

In short, rgprice made a demonstrable false statement about the Qumran community but instead of apologizing for it he just simply ignores it.

Can't let truth get in front of ego.

John T is done with this thread.

[ABuddhist]

Someone starts a thread and makes an assertion but when a legitimate challenge comes up they do not respond. Meaning, they aren't really interested in their subject, just trying to get validation.

It is a major jump to go from "does not respond to a challenge" to "is only pretending to be interested in the subject". Why are you so inclined to make such uncharitable jumps?

*News flash to ABuddhist.
rgprice doesn't respond to you either. He/she only responds to those who stroke his ego. But that doesn't stop isayre (a.k.a. "off topic for sure") or you from taking this opportunity to once again hijack this thread and trash Christianity, you got egos to stroke too. It's not about Biblical criticism, rather only about scoring points. As a constant attention seeker, you might have more success if you actually researched the subject a little before jumping at the chance to insult those who graciously try to educate you.
Do you see the pattern yet?

Wet, lather, rinse, and repeat.

In short, rgprice made a demonstrable false statement about the Qumran community but instead of apologizing for it he just simply ignores it.

Can't let truth get in front of ego.

John T is done with this thread.

I was not seeking for rgprice to reply to me here, but rgprice has replied to me in the following places, among others:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8378&p=127034&hilit ... ST#p127034

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8378&p=127064&hilit ... ST#p127064

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8378&p=127133&hilit ... ST#p127133

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8391&p=127495&hilit ... ST#p127495

As for the assertion that I was hijacking this thread and trashing Christianity, please prove proof to me that I did that here.

"It's not about Biblical criticism, rather only about scoring points"

Surely this attitude applies to you also with your willingness to insult other people within this forum by accusing them of being biased and deceptive opponents to Christianity.

It is true that I have at times been rather harsh with karavan within this forum, but e was much ruder to me and top many other people first; that is far from a tendency to insult people who try to educate me. To the contrary, I have gladly learned from other posters here, including the historicist Chris Hansen.

I have not been seeking attention on this forum, but only trying to correct errors and inquire about other people's reasoning.

Without addressing whether Price in fact was in error and ignoring corrections, I note that you just today were in error about whether all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists are from past centuries - and you ignored corrections from me and from Chris Hansen.

[John T]

...I [ABuddhist] was not seeking for rgprice to reply to me here...

...As for the assertion that I [ABuddhist] was hijacking this thread and trashing Christianity, please prove proof to me that I did that here...

...Surely this attitude applies to you [John T] also with your willingness to insult other people within this forum by accusing them of being biased and deceptive opponents to Christianity....

...I [ABuddhist] have not been seeking attention on this forum, but only trying to correct errors and inquire about other people's reasoning...

...Without addressing whether Price in fact was in error and ignoring corrections, I [ABuddhist] note that you [John T] just today were in error about whether all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists are from past centuries - and you ignored corrections from me and from Chris Hansen...

...It is a major jump to go from "does not respond to a challenge" to "is only pretending to be interested in the subject". Why are you so inclined to make such uncharitable jumps?...

I said I was done with this thread i.e. topic but seeing that jgprice does not want to address his error on the Quram system (perhaps he has blocked me which makes this all the better), I will make one last post to address ABuddist's accusations.

Why would ABuddhist feel compelled to make a series of false statements about me and after I said on was done on this thread? For example, where on this thread did I say: "...all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists..." Why did you make that up? To what end?

You said you are not seeking attention but yet you deliberately try to pick a fight with me, not on merit but irrelevant straw-man arguments.

If a poster starts a thread and solicits feedback on an idea only to turn out that his premise was wrong, he should thank those who corrected him.

Now just because rgprice was proven wrong does not mean it now becomes an open invitation for ABuddhist to go on a personal attack.

I feel like I'm being stalked by a troll.

Back to the time-out chair for you ABuddhist.

[ABuddhist]

...I [ABuddhist] was not seeking for rgprice to reply to me here...

...As for the assertion that I [ABuddhist] was hijacking this thread and trashing Christianity, please prove proof to me that I did that here...

...Surely this attitude applies to you [John T] also with your willingness to insult other people within this forum by accusing them of being biased and deceptive opponents to Christianity....

...I [ABuddhist] have not been seeking attention on this forum, but only trying to correct errors and inquire about other people's reasoning...

...Without addressing whether Price in fact was in error and ignoring corrections, I [ABuddhist] note that you [John T] just today were in error about whether all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists are from past centuries - and you ignored corrections from me and from Chris Hansen...

...It is a major jump to go from "does not respond to a challenge" to "is only pretending to be interested in the subject". Why are you so inclined to make such uncharitable jumps?...

I said I was done with this thread i.e. topic but seeing that jgprice does not want to address his error on the Quram system (perhaps he has blocked me which makes this all the better), I will make one last post to address ABuddist's accusations.

Why would ABuddhist feel compelled to make a series of false statements about me and after I said on was done on this thread? For example, where on this thread did I say: "...all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists..." Why did you make that up? To what end?

You said you are not seeking attention but yet you deliberately try to pick a fight with me, not on merit but irrelevant straw-man arguments.

If a poster starts a thread and solicits feedback on an idea only to turn out that his premise was wrong, he should thank those who corrected him.

Now just because rgprice was proven wrong does not mean it now becomes an open invitation for ABuddhist to go on a personal attack.

I feel like I'm being stalked by a troll.

You assert that I have made a series of false statements, but the evidence which you have provided about my allegedly false statements pertains to only one of my allegedly false statements and reveals that you are adding to my words in order to paint me as a maker of false statements.

1. The first specific false statement which you attribute to me is the claim that I accused you of making in this thread that all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists are long dead. But I made a broader claim in this thread about all of your words within this forum about how all mythicists are atheists and all doubters of the TF who are not mythicists are long dead. You are he one who unilaterally narrows my words to talking only about your words within this thread - and then attribute trhis narrowed statement to me as a basis for condemning me as a maker of false statements.

2. The second false statement which you attribute to me is the claim that I am not trying to seek attention. But then, rather than even trying to find words in which I claim to seek attention, you accuse me, with no evidence, of deliberately trying to pick a fight with you based upon irrelevant strawman arguments. Even if I were using "irrelevant strawman arguments", which I deny, the fact that you have provided none of my arguments as examples of "irrelevant strawman arguments" suggests that you are unable to support your assertion. An unsupported assertion can be dismissed easily. Furthermore, Even if I were using "irrelevant strawman arguments", which I deny, that does not mean that I am trying to pick a fight with you; rather, I am trying to correct your wrong beliefs about the motives of mythicists (whom I am not one of), about the opinions of people asserting that the TF is false, and other matters. Even if I were I were trying to pick a fight with you, which I deny, that does not mean that I am seeking attention for myself here. If I were seeking attention for myself here, then I would be a lot ruder, a lot frequenter in posting, and a lot more opinionated.

I am not a troll and am not stalking you; I am only doing what you do to others - pointing out errors in claims. But while you eagerly use insults and uncharitable assumptions about what motivates the people whom you correct, I use citations and reasoning in order to urge correction.