IS XS: No Jesus or Christ spelled out in early MSS

[mlinssen]

Working on something. Here are the 6 verses containing the XRS.
Patterson Brown translation.

I stole them from you now, and have transcribed IS / IHS as well now, including some corrections

Verses in the Gospel of Philip containing "XRS"

8. The XRS came! Some indeed he ransoms, yet others he saves, yet for others he atones°.

20. 'IS’ is a hidden name, ‘the XRS’ is a name revealed outward. Thus ‘IS’ indeed does not occur in any (other) languages, but rather his name is ‘IHS’ as he is called. Yet his name ‘XRS’ in SYROS-ness is ‘Messiah°’, but in Ionian° is: XS.

51. The Apostles who preceded us called (him) thus: IHS the NAZWRAIOS Messiah—this is IHS the NAZWRAIOS XS. The last name is the XS, the first is IS, that in the middle is the NAZARHNOS. ‘Messiah’ has two references (SHMASIA): both the XRS and also the measured°. ‘IS’ in Hebrew is the atonement. ‘NAZARA’ is the truth (ALHTEIA), therefore the NAZARHNOS is the true (ALHTEIA). The XS is the measured, the NAZARHNOS and IS are the measurement.

72. It is appropriate for those born not only of the words ‘the Father with the Son with the Sacred Spirit’, but (moreover) are begotten of them themselves. Whoever is not begotten of them, will have the name also taken from him.b Yet one receives them in the Chrism of the fullness in the power of the crossc, which the Apostles call: the right with the left.d For this-one is no longer [a XRηSTI]AN but rather a XRS.

86. Therefore the XRS came, so that he might rectify to himself the separation that had obtained from (the) beginning, by his mating the two together.

"Yeshua" is a bias of Paterson Brown, like his Christic.
No text ever says anything but IS or IHS - but that doesn't prevent anyone from inserting their own full form of Jesus into them

Presentism. It's a worry. Arguably we are looking at Greek and Coptic code books which must have made perfect sense when they were compiled. They were expensive to manufacture. They were manufactured by elite academics. WTF were they doing writing about an historical or fictional or mythical Jesus Christ using only abbreviated codes?

All I can think of is that it was - at some early stage - never intended that the full names of IS XS were to appear in the "Sacred NT" writings. The mystery could be revealed by knocking on the doors of the church and asking the bishop.

Here are the 17 Verses in the Gospel of Philip containing "XS"

17 Verses in the Gospel of Philip containing "XS"

4 A nationalist° does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive — and this one is in danger of dying (as a martyr), for he is alive since the day that the XS came.

5 The system is invented: , the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.

15 Before the XS came, there was no bread in the world as (there had been) in paradise°, the place where Adam was. /// But the XS was sent, the perfect° person. He brought bread from heaven, so that humankind could be nourished with the food of humankind.

20 'IS’ is a hidden name, ‘the XRS’ is a name revealed outward. Thus ‘IS’ indeed does not occur in any (other) languages, but rather his name is ‘IHS’ as he is called. Yet his name ‘XRS’ in SYROS-ness is ‘Messiah°’, but in Ionian° is: XS. (updated from above)

21 The XS has everything within himself—whether human or angel° or mystery°, and (also) the Father.

48 But in the truth it is thus—thou saw something of that place, thou came to be among those there. Thou saw the Spirit,b thou became spiritual; thou saw the XS,b thou became XSlike; thou saw [the Father,b thou] shall become paternal.

51 The Apostles who preceded us called (him) thus: Yeshua the Nazirite° Messiah—this is Yeshua the Nazirite XS. The last name is the XS, the first is Yeshua, that in the middle is the Nazirite. ‘Messiah’ has two refe-rences: both the XRS and also the measured°. ‘Yeshua’ in Hebrew is the atonement. ‘Nazara’ is the truth, therefore the Nazirite is the true. The XS is the measured, the Nazirite and Yeshua are the measurement.

59 The wisdom which (humans) call barren is herself the Mother of the Angels.a And the companion° of the [XS] is Mariam the Magdalene. The [Lord loved] Mariam more than [all the (other)] Disciples, [and he] kissed her often on her [mouth]

75 Before XS some came forth. They were no longer able to enter into whence they emerged, and they were no longer able to exit from whither they entered. Yet the XS came. Those who had gone in he brought out, and those who had gone out he brought in.

80 Thru the Sacred Spirit we are indeed born, yet we are reborn thru the XS. In both we are anointed thru the Spirit—(anda) having been begotten, we were mated.

90 Adam came into being from two virgins—from the Spirit and from the virgin earth. Therefore XS was be-gotten from a virgin, so that the stumbling which occurred in the beginning shall be rectified.

101 The Chrism is made lord over the Baptism.a For from the Chrism we are called XRISTIANOS(s, andb) not because of the Baptism. And (he) was called the XS because of the Chrism. For the Father anointed the Son, yet the Son anointed the Apostles, yet the Apostles anointed us

124 This is Yeshua the XS—he beguiled the entire place and did not burden anyone. Therefore, blest is this perfected person of this kind; for this one is the Logos

I added this verse to the list in case it was about the system:

5 The system is invented: , the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.

PROVISIONAL CONCLUSION

The XS is the Greek logos style "messiah", the XRS is the Hebrew version.
Contact your local bishop for further information

The only thing that matters is that Philip apparently is trying to solve a puzzle, and so are we: it never was clear to anyone what these ligatures stood for

The later they date Philip, the harder they'll bite themselves in the ass: first of all because Philip seems to narrate of a recent Christianity, yet second of all because he makes clear that nothing was clear about the meaning of IS or XS, nor their counterparts IHS and XRS

Let's face it: there is no ground at all to call Jesus Jesus, and certainly not to call him Christ - all that is very late and "interpolations" so to say, likely postdating 500CE

[Leucius Charinus]

5 The system is invented: , the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.

PROVISIONAL CONCLUSION

The XS is the Greek logos style "messiah", the XRS is the Hebrew version.
Contact your local bishop for further information

The only thing that matters is that Philip apparently is trying to solve a puzzle, and so are we: it never was clear to anyone what these ligatures stood for

The later they date Philip, the harder they'll bite themselves in the ass: first of all because Philip seems to narrate of a recent Christianity, yet second of all because he makes clear that nothing was clear about the meaning of IS or XS, nor their counterparts IHS and XRS

Let's face it: there is no ground at all to call Jesus Jesus, and certainly not to call him Christ - all that is very late and "interpolations" so to say, likely postdating 500CE

Gospel of Philip --- "Chrestians" and/or "Christians" References

Verses in the Gospel of Philip which mention "Chrestians"

6. In the days when we were Hebrews we were left fatherless, having only our Mother (the Sacred Spirit). We became XRηSTIANOS - Father came to be with Mother for us.

53. If thou say ‘I’m a Jew’—no one will be moved. If thou say ‘I’m a Roman’—no one will be disturbed. If thou say ‘I’m a Greek, a barbarian, a slave, a freeman’—no one will be troubled. If thou [say] ‘I’m a XRηSTIAN°’—[everyone] shall heed.

63. If one goes down into the water (of Baptism) and comes back up without having received anything, saying ‘I’m a XRηSTIAN’, he has taken the name on loan. Yet if he receives the Sacred Spirit, he has the gift of the name. He who has received a gift is not deprived of it, but he who has taken a loan has it demanded from him.

72. It is appropriate for those born not only of the words ‘the Father with the Son with the Sacred Spirit’, but (moreover) are begotten of them themselves. Whoever is not begotten of them, will have the name also taken from him.b Yet one receives them in the Chrism of the fullness in the power of the crossc, which the Apostles call: the right with the left.d For this-one is no longer [a XRηSTI]AN but rather a XRS.

103. Excellently did the Lord say: Some have attained the Sovereignty of the Heavens laughing, and they came forth [rejoicing from the world]. The XRηSTIAN [...] who went down into the water immediately came forth as master over everything, because [he did not consider (the Baptism) a] game, but rather he disdained this [chan-ging world for] the Sovereignty of the Heavens. If he disdains (the world) and scorns it as a game, he [shall] come forth laughing.

Christians are mentioned in 2 verses.

Verses in the Gospel of Philip which mention "Christians"

101. The Chrism is made lord over the Baptism.a For from the Chrism we are called XRISTIANOS(s, and) not because of the Baptism. And (he) was called the XS because of the Chrism. For the Father anointed the Son, yet the Son anointed the Apostles, yet the Apostles anointed us

108. A horse naturally begets a horse, a human begets (a) human,a a god begets (a) god. Thus it is, regarding the Bridegroom within the Bride—[their Sons] came forth in the Bridal-Chamber. (The) Jews had not derived [...] from the Greeks, [...] and [we XRISTIANOS do not derive] from the Jews.

[mlinssen]

Verses in the Gospel of Philip which mention "Christians"

101. The XREISMA is made lord over the Baptism.a For from the XRISMA we are called XRISTIANOS(s, and) not because of the Baptism. And (he) was called the XS because of the XRISMA. For the Father anointed the Son, yet the Son anointed the Apostles, yet the Apostles anointed us

I fixed and highlighted the XRISM stuff.
ⲧⲱϩⲥ is the word for anointing here, the regular and native Coptic. Wouldn't one expect a verb like xriomai or something, related to XRISMA?
Well, it ain't there

108. A horse naturally begets a horse, a human begets (a) human,a a god begets (a) god. Thus it is, regarding the Bridegroom within the Bride—[their Sons] came forth in the Bridal-Chamber. (The) Jews had not derived [...] from the Greeks, [...] and [we XRISTIANOS do not derive] from the Jews.
[/box]

I love the end: sons of the Nymphoon indeed, exactly as it says in the gospels. Children of the Nymphoon exist in Union - of we take the first half of logion 109.
So many riddles...

[Leucius Charinus]

The only thing that matters is that Philip apparently is trying to solve a puzzle, and so are we: it never was clear to anyone what these ligatures stood for

Let's restate the puzzle.

1. The NT literature (canonical and apocryphal, Greek and Coptic) are saturated with at least a dozen encrypted words ("nomina sacra") the chief of which are "IS" and "XS"

2. The mainstream paradigm in biblical historical scholarship is that "IS" and "XC" are to be de-encrypted into "Jesus" and "Christ"

3. Nowhere in antiquity was this de-encryption algorithm or mapping table made explicit.

4. WTF is going on?

The later they date Philip, the harder they'll bite themselves in the ass: first of all because Philip seems to narrate of a recent Christianity, yet second of all because he makes clear that nothing was clear about the meaning of IS or XS, nor their counterparts IHS and XRS

I am still looking at Philip's use of the codes and how he relates them together. It's as if Philip is outlining broad definitions of these codes. IDK.

Let's face it: there is no ground at all to call Jesus Jesus, and certainly not to call him Christ - all that is very late and "interpolations" so to say, likely postdating 500CE

Philip's use of the "Chrestians" and the Christians" as explicit terms suggest that Chrestos and Christos were in circulation at that time. The earliest inscription (4th C) is to "IS the Good".

If the earliest codices were purposefully prepared with these encrypted words and purposefully WITHOUT any explanation then obviously readers must return to the publisher in order to have any understanding of their meaning. Who was the publisher before Constantine? This may be the Origen edition but there's little evidence of it.

The publisher held the monopoly business in understanding the Holy Scriptures.

[mlinssen]

The only thing that matters is that Philip apparently is trying to solve a puzzle, and so are we: it never was clear to anyone what these ligatures stood for

Let's restate the puzzle.

1. The NT literature (canonical and apocryphal, Greek and Coptic) are saturated with at least a dozen encrypted words ("nomina sacra") the chief of which are "IS" and "XS"

2. The mainstream paradigm in biblical historical scholarship is that "IS" and "XC" are to be de-encrypted into "Jesus" and "Christ"

3. Nowhere in antiquity was this de-encryption algorithm or mapping table made explicit.

4. WTF is going on?

The later they date Philip, the harder they'll bite themselves in the ass: first of all because Philip seems to narrate of a recent Christianity, yet second of all because he makes clear that nothing was clear about the meaning of IS or XS, nor their counterparts IHS and XRS

I am still looking at Philip's use of the codes and how he relates them together. It's as if Philip is outlining broad definitions of these codes. IDK.

Let's face it: there is no ground at all to call Jesus Jesus, and certainly not to call him Christ - all that is very late and "interpolations" so to say, likely postdating 500CE

Philip's use of the "Chrestians" and the Christians" as explicit terms suggest that Chrestos and Christos were in circulation at that time. The earliest inscription (4th C) is to "IS the Good".

If the earliest codices were purposefully prepared with these encrypted words and purposefully WITHOUT any explanation then obviously readers must return to the publisher in order to have any understanding of their meaning. Who was the publisher before Constantine? This may be the Origen edition but there's little evidence of it.

The publisher held the monopoly business in understanding the Holy Scriptures.

It's not that hard really: there was a ligature and no one knew what it stood for - but if you're going to claim the protagonist who goes by that very same ligature to be yours, naturally you have to explain what it stands for.
Is that what Philip does? He doesn't say why he is doing what he is doing, but it is evident that he describes the history of Chrestianity becoming Christianity, or rather, the words changing vowel - and he clearly stipulates that such is not iotacism

[mlinssen]

Let's restate the puzzle.

Just a quick nudge: I've added IS/IHS to Philip and then some. What a rubbish translation by Brown, unbelievable! He uses identical English words (e.g. Chrism) for Greek loanwords as well as native Coptic words, different English for identical Coptic words depending on his mood, I guess - so take it all with a great pinch of salt please, at least the IS/IHS/XS/XRS stuff now is easily recognisable

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8641&p=140226#p140226

[Leucius Charinus]

Just a quick nudge: I've added IS/IHS to Philip and then some. What a rubbish translation by Brown, unbelievable! He uses identical English words (e.g. Chrism) for Greek loanwords as well as native Coptic words, different English for identical Coptic words depending on his mood, I guess - so take it all with a great pinch of salt please, at least the IS/IHS/XS/XRS stuff now is easily recognisable

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8641&p=140226#p140226

How "XS" = Christ is Introduced in the Gospel of Philip

Verse 4: https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph004.html
4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr), for he is alive since the day that the XS (translated as Christ) came.

Verse 5: https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph005.html
5. The system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.


From 4 we read that " A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die". This seems to read that the author is saying for example that "An Australian does not die for he has never lived. " This can be understood by assuming the author is saying that the nationalistic identity is not a living being but an abstract concept associated with those that live, for example, in Australia. Is this reasonable?

From 4 we read that "Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive -- however is in danger of dying (as a martyr) -- since the day that the XS came". This is a bit tricky. But just leaving that aside the next verse runs "the system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out."

QUESTION: Who gets to decide where the verses start and stop?

For example, what is to logically prevent this (Orwellian) reconstruction:

4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr) for he is alive

5. since the day that the XS came - the system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.

Here the author would be commenting that the appearance of the XS coincides with the appearance of an invented and systematic construction of the abbreviations XS, XRS, IS, IHS within Christian literature. It is generally understood that the Christianisation of the empire was a process which started in the major cities.

Otherwise what does Philip mean with the phrase "since the day that the XS came - the system is invented?

So who gets to split the wall of Coptic text without punctuations into verses?

[mlinssen]

Just a quick nudge: I've added IS/IHS to Philip and then some. What a rubbish translation by Brown, unbelievable! He uses identical English words (e.g. Chrism) for Greek loanwords as well as native Coptic words, different English for identical Coptic words depending on his mood, I guess - so take it all with a great pinch of salt please, at least the IS/IHS/XS/XRS stuff now is easily recognisable

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8641&p=140226#p140226

How "XS" = Christ is Introduced in the Gospel of Philip

Verse 4: https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph004.html
4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr), for he is alive since the day that the XS (translated as Christ) came.

Verse 5: https://metalogos.org/files/ph_interlin/ph005.html
5. The system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.


From 4 we read that " A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die". This seems to read that the author is saying for example that "An Australian does not die for he has never lived. " This can be understood by assuming the author is saying that the nationalistic identity is not a living being but an abstract concept associated with those that live, for example, in Australia. Is this reasonable?

From 4 we read that "Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive -- however is in danger of dying (as a martyr) -- since the day that the XS came". This is a bit tricky. But just leaving that aside the next verse runs "the system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out."

QUESTION: Who gets to decide where the verses start and stop?

For example, what is to logically prevent this (Orwellian) reconstruction:

4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr) for he is alive

5. since the day that the XS came - the system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out.

Here the author would be commenting that the appearance of the XS coincides with the appearance of an invented and systematic construction of the abbreviations XS, XRS, IS, IHS within Christian literature. It is generally understood that the Christianisation of the empire was a process which started in the major cities.

Otherwise what does Philip mean with the phrase "since the day that the XS came - the system is invented?

So who gets to split the wall of Coptic text without punctuations into verses?

Puzzling why you revert to Brown when I've transcribed at least some of it.
Long story short: a fully normalised translation will solve this problem like it did with Thomas.
System? KOSMOS

5. The system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out

5. They create [dop] the KOSMOS they make-be KOSMOS [dop] the cities they carry [dop] they-who have-died outward

Do you see how important it is to stick to the Coptic? There are a few important words in Philip when it comes to creating, founding, and so on

4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr) for he is alive

4. A ἐθνικός of man not-usually he dies did-not he live indeed eternally so that he will die. He-who have πιστεύω [dop] the truth did he live - and this-one κινδυνεύω (risks) [dop] die he living indeed starting-from the day have the XS come

ἐθνικός doesn't exist, it is one of those words.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... Aentry%3De)qniko%2Fs

Go by all the references, date the manuscripts, see what remains. I've done it for all the loanwords in Thomas - and if I live long enough I will do it for Philip as well

Change your mental models, think outside the box. There are no patterns, rules or regulations but the ones you hold on to.
That goes for everything, including my behaviour here and everywhere else - but also for the alleged logia division in scriptio continua

Paterson Brown created his own pet Jesus like everyone else - and so have I yet mine doesn't exist outside of Thomas other than as a placeholder for stories: Thomas created IS and from then on everyone is telling his own version of the story about him - and that is the full extent to which that IS should be employed

[Leucius Charinus]

How "XS" = Christ is Introduced in the Gospel of Philip

///

Otherwise what does Philip mean with the phrase "since the day that the XS came - the system is invented?

So who gets to split the wall of Coptic text without punctuations into verses?

Puzzling why you revert to Brown when I've transcribed at least some of it.
Long story short: a fully normalised translation will solve this problem like it did with Thomas.

System? KOSMOS

5. The system is invented, the cities are constructed, the dead carried out

5. They create [dop] the KOSMOS they make-be KOSMOS [dop] the cities they carry [dop] they-who have-died outward

Do you see how important it is to stick to the Coptic? There are a few important words in Philip when it comes to creating, founding, and so on

4. A nationalist does not die, for he has never lived so that he could die. Whoever has trusted the truth (became) alive—and this-one is in danger of dying (as a martyr) for he is alive

4. A ἐθνικός of man not-usually he dies did-not he live indeed eternally so that he will die. He-who have πιστεύω [dop] the truth did he live - and this-one κινδυνεύω (risks) [dop] die he living indeed starting-from the day have the XS come

ἐθνικός doesn't exist, it is one of those words.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... Aentry%3De)qniko%2Fs

Go by all the references, date the manuscripts, see what remains. I've done it for all the loanwords in Thomas - and if I live long enough I will do it for Philip as well

That will be good. None of this is straightforward until we get an objective translation.

Change your mental models, think outside the box. There are no patterns, rules or regulations but the ones you hold on to.
That goes for everything, including my behaviour here and everywhere else - but also for the alleged logia division in scriptio continua

Thanks for clarifying that (again).

Paterson Brown created his own pet Jesus like everyone else - and so have I yet mine doesn't exist outside of Thomas other than as a placeholder for stories: Thomas created IS and from then on everyone is telling his own version of the story about him - and that is the full extent to which that IS should be employed

The first three tracts in NHL Codex 2 are:

2.1 The Prayer of the Apostle Paul <=== IS and XS ????
2.2 The Gospel of Thomas <===== IS IHS only
2.3 The Gospel of Philip <===== IS, IHS and XS, XRS

"The Prayer of the Apostle Paul" is relatively short and looks to contain the IS and XS. Thomas has "IS" everywhere but makes no mention of "XS". Then in the next tract in Codex 2 after Thomas, Philip brings forward IS XS along with the Christians in the presence of a multitude of Chrestians.

How do you think that Philip is related (if at all) to Thomas or vice verse?

[mlinssen]

The first three tracts in NHL Codex 2 are:

2.1 The Prayer of the Apostle Paul <=== IS and XS ????
2.2 The Gospel of Thomas <===== IS IHS only
2.3 The Gospel of Philip <===== IS, IHS and XS, XRS

"The Prayer of the Apostle Paul" is relatively short and looks to contain the IS and XS. Thomas has "IS" everywhere but makes no mention of "XS". Then in the next tract in Codex 2 after Thomas, Philip brings forward IS XS along with the Christians in the presence of a multitude of Chrestians.

How do you think that Philip is related (if at all) to Thomas or vice verse?

Half of that quest is done already, via my Chrestian paper, by presenting the NHL indexes in full where it concerns Chr?st?
If you would be so kind to go by those and jot down the various forms per tractate, I think we will clearly see a demarcation there already. I'm assuming that IHS and XRS are earlier than IS and XS, or rather: it is safer to use only IS and XS when you have no idea what either of the 4 stands for

Thomas started something that got turned into a story, and Philip narrates ABOUT the development of that story over a few centuries.
There certainly are similar words, as well as dissimilar ones - but it's safe to assume that
1. Whatever Thomas intended with his story didn't fully come across
2. Like every other story the previous story merely was a basis for the next story, and it's not like the final document got signed off by the very first author