Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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John T
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by John T »

MrMacSon wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:59 am
John T wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:31 am
Here let me help you. In your next post please start off with: Jospehus did not mention Jesus and his brother Jesus in his historical works because:________________________.

Why ‘Jospehus [would] not [have] mention[ed] Jesus and his brother Jesus in his historical works’ is a very different prospect to an argument that he didn’t.
Just trying to get Ken to start off with some kind of a declarative. You are welcome to make it for him with his permission. You have provided credible input deserving a response but Ken demands the lime light, so please wait behind the stage curtains until he is done with his song and dance.

Ken, the peanut gallery is getting restless waiting for your shtick. :popcorn:
ABuddhist
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by ABuddhist »

John T wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:22 am
MrMacSon wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:59 am
John T wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:31 am
Here let me help you. In your next post please start off with: Jospehus did not mention Jesus and his brother Jesus in his historical works because:________________________.

Why ‘Jospehus [would] not [have] mention[ed] Jesus and his brother Jesus in his historical works’ is a very different prospect to an argument that he didn’t.
Just trying to get Ken to start off with some kind of a declarative. You are welcome to make it for him with his permission. You have provided credible input deserving a response but Ken demands the lime light, so please wait behind the stage curtains until he is done with his song and dance.

Ken, the peanut gallery is getting restless waiting for your shtick. :popcorn:
Ken Olson wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:56 am How about you acknowledge the problems I pointed out with the Forbes video you posted in favor of your position before we get to my best argument?
Ken Olson has set out conditions for his giving to you what you want.
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Ken Olson
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Ken Olson »

John T wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:22 am
Just trying to get Ken to start off with some kind of a declarative. You are welcome to make it for him with his permission. You have provided credible input deserving a response but Ken demands the lime light, so please wait behind the stage curtains until he is done with his song and dance.

Ken, the peanut gallery is getting restless waiting for your shtick. :popcorn:
The peanut gallery you speak of consists of you. I suspect everyone else on the forum who is interested to learn what my argument is has actually gone ahead and read it in the short paper to which the link has repeatedly been provided. And even you have not become so restless that you have actually gone so far as to read it.

It's clear that you don't want to argue the merits. To argue the merits or decide the merits means to argue or decide based on the facts and evidence available as opposed to arguing on procedural grounds. You are refusing to read the case I've made and insisting on a particular procedure you made up.

To return the question you asked me in the other thread - who do you think you are fooling? It's not the other participants in this thread. thye've seen through your obstructionism and said so. You're fooling only yourself.

Your case has consisted largely of you stating personal opinions as facts and appealing to authorities and then refusing to ackowledge when the authorities to whom you appeal are shown to be wrong. ('Nothing to see here, let's move on').

You also like to use disparaging language ('song and dance') while disallowing other people who have used language you felt was disparaging (or smart-alecky) to you and while you tap dance around the evidence after you've bene told where to find it.

Best,

Ken
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Sinouhe
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Sinouhe »

John T Is a troll.
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Ken Olson
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Ken Olson »

Sinouhe wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:54 am John T Is a troll.
Yeah, I know, but I decided to play along.

Best,

Ken
ABuddhist
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by ABuddhist »

Sinouhe wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:54 am John T Is a troll.
I disagree. I think that John T, motivated by Christian faith and hatred of atheism, has a different definition of what proper discourse about Christian origins should be - and a tendency to regard opponents of the model which he favours as atheists/mythicists/anti-Christians/trolls (which to him seem to be interchangeable).
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John T
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by John T »

Ken Olson wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:04 am
Sinouhe wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:54 am John T Is a troll.
Yeah, I know, but I decided to play along.

Best,

Ken
Well then, that means Ken losses due to his failure to back up his claim (what ever it was) and his default to fallacy of ad hominem, strawman, and name calling, etc,. You had plenty of chances but you decided to go the low road, not scholarly like at all.

Please exit the stage and let someone else have a shot because you aren't even ready for this small vaudeville theater. You are more than welcome to sit in the peanut gallery with your mythicist friends and throw tomatoes but you had your chance and you blew it. :facepalm:

The show must go on.

Whose up next?

And for God's sake, please don't start off with insulting the stage manager. Try to keep it on intellectual level so I reciprocate in kind.

John T
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Ken Olson
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Ken Olson »

ABuddhist wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:13 am
Sinouhe wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:54 am John T Is a troll.
I disagree. I think that John T, motivated by Christian faith and hatred of atheism, has a different definition of what proper discourse about Christian origins should be - and a tendency to regard opponents of the model which he favours as atheists/mythicists/anti-Christians/trolls (which to him seem to be interchangeable).
ABuddhist,

I think you might well be right about his motivations. But this is a largely an argument over the definition of troll. The internet doesn't yet have a particular word for the sincere troll (one who actually believes he holds the right position no matter how poor or irresponsible his arguments and behavior are) and such would be useful. I've seen polemicist (applicable), sh*tposter (applicable, but too broad and obscene), and others suggested but none quite captures the concept that needs to be expressed correctly.

But I think he's been trolling me by saying inflammatory things to get me to respond, so in that sense a troll.

Best,

Ken
Chrissy Hansen
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Chrissy Hansen »

John T wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:18 pm
Chris Hansen wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:50 pm Anyone who refuses to read the papers of the opposite party is someone who is too dishonest or too lazy to be worth engaging. John T is one of those people.
As I previously warned, I reserve the right not to respond to dishonest, smart-alleck attacks. So you are now dismissed like ABuddhist, that is, unless you are willing to stand in as second for Ken Olson and make his best argument.
Oh no, I'm so hurt by not being graced with the presence of your exceptionally demeaning attitude. Whatever shall I do with myself?
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Ken Olson
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Re: Jospehus did indeed mention Jesus and his brother James

Post by Ken Olson »

Chris Hansen wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:12 am
John T wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:18 pm
Chris Hansen wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:50 pm Anyone who refuses to read the papers of the opposite party is someone who is too dishonest or too lazy to be worth engaging. John T is one of those people.
As I previously warned, I reserve the right not to respond to dishonest, smart-alleck attacks. So you are now dismissed like ABuddhist, that is, unless you are willing to stand in as second for Ken Olson and make his best argument.
Oh no, I'm so hurt by not being graced with the presence of your exceptionally demeaning attitude. Whatever shall I do with myself?
Chris,

You should have known that only John T gets to make dishonest smart-alleck attacks in this thread. You have only yourself to blame.

Best,

Ken
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