Was Morton Smith a forger?

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Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

gryan wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:00 pm "Morton Smith was Not a Forger!"
https://jamestabor.com/morton-smith-and ... l-of-mark/
imho, Morton Smith was a forger, but a really good forger

His story contains an ancient monastery, an old book in the library of the monastery, the handwritten letter of a church father, the exciting story about the secret teachings of an evangelist and about a heretical sect that managed to snatch the knowledge from the guardians of the secret teachings and to falsify it. This is a mix of Tischendorf's discovery, Indiana Jones and Eco's "The name of the rose". And many, many highly esteemed scholars believed that.

Cheers Morton and kisses for you :cheers:
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

Giuseppe. See this is a good illustration of the problem.

Too Clementine for Clement says Andrew. SG = it's been proved it wasn't by Clement. Others it's Clementine.

I just saw David Oliver whatever his name tell Berman "I published a paper which proves that there are non-Markan phrases in Secret Mark proving its a forgery. Others it's a pastiche of Markan phrases which proves its a forgery. Others again it's absolutely Markan so it's authentic.

The debate says a lot about the value of scholarship in the humanities.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

I think this forum is so great because it strips bare the futility of humanities scholarship. Take away the podiums and the titles and the big journals and the pomp and circumstances and what are you left with? A series of suggestions. Mere 'suggestions' of truth. There's no 'law making' or 'rule making' in humanities scholarship which leaves the door open for people like mountainman and Giuseppe and John T and the like. As Nietzsche said, science can't create values.
StephenGoranson
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by StephenGoranson »

Giuseppe: "...M. Smith loved so much all the gospels..." ?????
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

In former ages there were - let's face it - religious 'authorities' at the top of the study of the Bible and early Christianity who 'ensures' that 'right belief' prevailed. Litwa says he was 'canceled' in effect fro'm his position at a Catholic university. Even Q was in a sense 'canceled' for getting married. This sort of stuff has always gone on. It didn't happen to Smith while he was alive because he was at one of the best universities in an age where 'cancel culture' as it is called now didn't exist. Would Smith have been booted from the university if he lived to 120 and kept teaching? Probably. Of course it would have been by forces on the other side of the political spectrum. But clearly the effort to attack Smith and make the 'secret gospel' a leftist cultural 'meme' is discernable. Politics was at the heart of his 'battle' with Neusner. Neusner was a Reagan appointee https://www.chronicle.com/article/guide ... -creation/ https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/pell_neh_II_70/ Smith came out against Neusner for his treatment of Gaster. This boiled over at the famous SBL incident. But long before and long after politics had entered into the situation.
And yesterday the council voted down a content-restriction proposal by conservative member Jacob Neusner. His list of forbidden subject matter, similar to some proposals circulating in Congress, includes "work that denigrates the beliefs ... of a particular religion," work that "utilizes any part of an actual human embryo or fetus" and work that advocates "a particular program of social action or change."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... c412313e4/

This was the culture which gave rise to Carlson's work (published by Baylor the future home of Ken Starr) https://www.jerusalemperspective.com/au ... n-carlson/

The idea that the post-humous assault against Morton Smith wasn't funded and principally supported by an agenda driven 'conservative movement' is hopelessly naive.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

While Neusner's efforts against the Secret Gospel are generally dismissed by forgery proponents today this doesn't mean that Neusner didn't have an effect on framing the Secret Gospel as a leftist plot against Christianity. Some context https://books.google.com/books?id=Fr2SD ... 22&f=false
StephenGoranson
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by StephenGoranson »

When M. Smith first reported at SBL, questions arose-- that same day.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

The account of the SBL incident from Neusner's perspective https://books.google.com/books?id=Fr2SD ... 22&f=false I have determined through my research that for Smith it was Neusner as a scholar and his treatment of Gaster whom he considered to be a good scholar and who was desperate for NEA funding which Neusner withheld for political reasons https://www.jstor.org/stable/598681 It's been awhile since I looked at my notes but I believe it was suggested by someone that this was driving Smith's actions.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by Secret Alias »

Another testament to the situation https://www.jstor.org/stable/606374
StephenGoranson
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Re: Was Morton Smith a forger?

Post by StephenGoranson »

When I wrote:
"When M. Smith first reported at SBL, questions arose-- that same day."
I mean by "first reported" at the SBL meeting in NY in December, 1960.
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