The Transfiguration as Crucifixion of Glory: Moses and Elijah the original two robbers occupying the two first places

[Giuseppe]

• Evidence that Moses and Elijah were called 'robbers':
  
  
  
  All who have come before me are thieves and robbers
  
  (John 10:8)

Since the two robbers replace the two sons of Zebedee by their respective positions on the right and the left of the cross, then they will receive the first places.

...but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”

(Mark 10:40)

Mark knew an obscure tradition that had the crucifixion, in outer space, of the demons themselves who had crucified Jesus, as punition for having them crucified the Lord of Glory.

Colossians 2:14-15

14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

The anti-demiurgists identified those demons with the Law and the Prophets, i.e. Moses and Elijah.

So Mark neutralized that anti-demiurgist tradition by having the demons (= Moses and Elijah) not crucified in heaven, but conversing pacifically with Jesus during the Transfiguration.

What was left was the memory of crucified demons who hated the Lord of Glory because the former had been deceived by the latter.

So Mark neutralized also that tradition by having the two crucified robbers insulting Jesus on the cross.

Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

(Mark 15:32)

I think that Mark has been not entirely able to eclipse what he wanted to eclipse: the memory of a celestial crucifixion of Jesus that, as effect, implied the celestial crucifixion of the demons who had given the Law.

[Giuseppe]

• Prof Bermejo-Rubio interprets the two robbers insulting Jesus as the rebels who insulted their leader for having betrayed their revolutionary hopes. So a historicist reading is already able alone to see a deception in action: Jesus had promised the victory on the Romans, the two robbers had believed in his promises of victory, ending with a disappointment followed by anger and frustration against their failed leader.

• A mythicist reading is able alone to interpret the two robbers insulting Jesus as the earthly transposition of the anger and frustration of the demons after that they were crucified by the Lord of the Glory, as final result of a deception in action: the demons crucified Jesus ⟶ Jesus crucified the demons ⟶ the deceived demons "heaped insults on him".

[lsayre]

What if "thieves and robbers" merely refers to the likes of Thudas and the Egyptian.

I.E., any/all Fourth Philosophy (like) Messianic contenders pre Jesus (or whatever his name was) were merely thieves and robbers. This fits with Josephus' name for them.

[Giuseppe]

Further evidence that the "rulers of this age" were crucified in outer space for having been deceived by a crucified Jesus:

Tunc vivens spiritus creavit mundum, et indutus alias tres virtutes, descendens eduxit principes et crucifixit eos in firmamento, quod est eius corpus sphera.

This tradition is survived in the image of the two crucified robbers insulting Jesus, given all the evidence:

• that the anti-demiurgist John 10:8 called 'robbers' Moses and Elijah;

• that Mark is aware of a tradition that reserved the first places of the crucifixion of glory for...

• ...the same two figures who were around Jesus in the Transfiguration episode.

[Giuseppe]

What if "thieves and robbers" merely refers to the likes of Thudas and the Egyptian.

I.E., any/all Fourth Philosophy (like) Messianic contenders pre Jesus (or whatever his name was) were merely thieves and robbers. This fits with Josephus' name for them.

your reading is absolutely wrong (as usual) beyond any reasonable doubt.

But the Johannine Christ didn't yet provide his full measure. Continue to gather his oracles. He says in the allegory of the good shepherd (10:8) "All those who came before me are robbers and thieves". He says "all"; he doesn't exempt persons, not even the prophets, not even Moses. Terrified by this act of accusation, the Fathers, the apologists, the critics did there what firefighters do in the presence of a fire. They endeavored to isolate it.

http://sgwau2cbeginnings.blogspot.com/p ... ge_25.html

[Giuseppe]

Evidence that Elijah was considered a demon by anti-demiurgists:

Now Satan, the prince of this world, knew that I was come to seek and 'to save that which was lost'; and he sent his angel, the prophet Elijah, who baptized in water and was called John the Baptist." Now, Elijah asked the prince of this world how he might recognize me. And the devil said to him, 'Upon Whom thou shalt see the Holy Spirit descending as a dove, and remaining upon Him, He it is that baptizeth in the Holy Spirit and with fire.' John asked this because he did not know me, but the one who sent him to baptize in water, he revealed me. John himself gave testimony: 'I baptize in water unto penance, but He baptizes you with the Holy Spirit unto the remission of sins. He it is who is able to destroy and to save.' "

http://gnosis.org/library/Interrogatio_Johannis.html

[Giuseppe]

Evidence that Moses was considered a demon by anti-demiurgists, and even one who contributed to the crucifixion of Jesus:

But when Satan learned that I had come down to this world, he sent his angel to take three pieces of wood. These he gave to the prophet Moses for my crucifixion. This wood they have kept for me until the present. And he revealed to Moses his divinity and bade him give laws to the children of Israel and lead them, on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

http://gnosis.org/library/Interrogatio_Johannis.html

[Giuseppe]

They blaspheme not only Abraham, Moses, Elijah and the whole choir of prophets, but the God who chose them as well.

https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/tag/panarion-26/