Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

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gryan
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Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by gryan »

Galatians 3:1
You unperceptive Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was written formerly (προ-εγράφη) as crucified (ἐσταυρωμένος).

---

What had the Galatians seen "written formerly" before their eyes? Was it Paul (or Mark?) writing a letter to some other city (or, alternatively, maybe even writing a proto-gospel). If a letter, maybe one with language such as this:

Letter to the Corintians (1 Cor 1:23)
"...but we preach Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον): a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

Paul presents himself as writing in a social context:

Gal 1:1-2
"Paul... and all the brothers with me, To the churches of Galatia."

Maybe, similarly, Paul wrote a letter from Galatia to some place like Corinth, and he did it "before the very eyes" of the Galatians.

I think Paul's letters influenced the writer of Mark. For example, I find it interesting that the very same form of the word "crucified" (ἐσταυρωμένον) that had been written by Paul in 1 Cor appears in Mark. Mark puts the word on the lips of an "angel" who says:

“Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον). He has risen..."

Cf. Letter to the Corintians (1 Cor 1:23)
"...but we preach Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον): a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

In Galatians, Paul says, "you received me as an angel of God!" (Gal 4:14)

I think the words of the "angel" at the empty tomb allude to the writings of Paul.

Furthermore,
I am interested in the identity of Mark's angel's audience:

Mk 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so they could go and anoint the body of Jesus.

cf Lk 24:10
10It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told this to the apostles.

If, as I have argued in some detail elsewhere, "Mary the mother of James" is most logically identified as the mother of the apostle, James son of Alphaeus (and not confused with, the "other Mary", the mother of Jesus and James the Lord's brother/James the less); if she is the mother of the "James" who spoke in Acts 15, and gave Paul the right hand of fellowship in Galatians 2, then Mark's "angel" preaching to the mother of "James" alludes to Paul presenting his gospel to the great pillars, "James" Et al.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by MrMacSon »

gryan wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:41 am
Galatians 3:1
You unperceptive Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was written formerly (προ-εγράφη) as crucified (ἐσταυρωμένος).
---
What had the Galatians seen "written formerly" before their eyes? Was it Paul (or Mark?) writing a letter to some other city (or, alternatively, maybe even writing a proto-gospel). If a letter, maybe one with language such as this:

Letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor 1:23)
"...but we preach Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον): a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles."

Paul presents himself as writing in a social context:

Gal 1:1-2
"Paul... and all the brothers with me, To the churches of Galatia."


David Oliver-Smith refers to this in his latest book, The Bible Tells Me So ....

He thinks Paul was, like James, Cephas and John members of the Qumran community associated with the Dead Sea Scrolls and that some of those Scrolls reveal more about them and their relationship.


... the Dead Sea Scrolls describe Paul as a traitor to their community ['the Spouter of Lies']and Paul describes the Qumran community as his opponents. Paul’s opponents are generally referred to by New Testament scholars as the “Jerusalem apostles.”

Paul’s letter to the Galatians is extremely important from a historical perspective. It appears from the letter that Paul is attempting to justify to the Galatians why he modified his theology from justification through the law to justification by faith. Apparently Paul sent mixed messages to the Galatians, first preaching the Qumran message and then returning and preaching his new Christology of a crucified Christ.

The Galatians were confused and apostles from the Qumran community came to them to dispute Paul’s justification by faith. In the letter Paul is trying to keep them in the faith and gives a thumbnail sketch of his ministry that outlines his spiritual journey of first accepting justification through the law and then rejecting it for justification by faith. Paul’s thumbnail sketch is consistent with his becoming a member of the Qumran community, working for them, having a new revelation, and leaving the group after trying to convince them of his point of view.

Paul writes in Galatians that he had persecuted Christian communities and then had a revelation of Christ. He immediately went to Damascus. Three years later he visited with Cephas and James in Jerusalem. This fifteen-day consultation is consistent with Paul inquiring about joining their community. Why would he mention such a trivial fact? It is consistent with being sent out as an apostle to recruit new members in the hinterlands. If this is a correct assessment, during his travels in Syria and Cilicia Paul would have been preaching a message of adherence to Mosaic law and an uncrucified Christ.
...< . . omitted . . >
Paul mentions the churches in Galatia in 1 Corinthians, but never mentions them again in his undisputed letters. They are notably missing from Rom 15 where he writes about finalizing the collection. It appears that the Galatians had been persuaded to forsake Paul’s Christianity for the Messianic Judaism of the Qumran community/Jerusalem apostles [Mark Goodacre, Dating Game II].

If this reading between the lines of Galatians is reasonably close to what happened, Paul would have been in a bind trying to explain to the Galatians why he had changed his theology and Christology from the first time he visited them. This reasoning makes sense of Paul’s statement at Gal 5:11 “But brothers, if I still preach circumcision why am I still persecuted?” His statement implies Paul taught circumcision at some time in the past but no longer does. And the next sentence, “Then the stumbling block of the cross has been done away with” clearly means that those who preach Mosaic law, circumcision, do not believe Christ was crucified.

If Paul’s opponents preach justification through the law [Gal 3:2], it is unnecessary and illogical for their Messiah to have been crucified. As Paul writes at Gal 2:21, “if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” The Qumran community/Jerusalem apostles, a group in which Paul had previously been a member, did not believe that Christ had been crucified. The Messiah they thought was coming was the “one like a son of man” prophesied in Dan 7:13–14.

The Christ Paul thought was coming was the one revealed to Paul by pesher of the suffering servant of Isa 53 and of Ps 22. It is obvious that if the dispute between Paul and his opponents was whether Christ had been crucified, they were not disagreeing about a crucifixion that occurred on Earth. If there had been an actual crucifixion on Earth, there would have been witnesses, and Paul’s proselytes would not have to take it on faith. Therefore, the crucifixion of Jesus must have taken place in the celestial realm and it had been revealed to Paul by the scriptures. Belief in the crucifixion required faith.

Smith, David Oliver. The Bible Tells Me So: A Critical Analysis of the Jesus Myth (pp. 364-366). Kindle Edition.


Previously,


The animosity between the community and the “Spouter of Lies,” as Paul was called, is documented in several of the Dead Sea Scrolls. By comparing the scrolls with the New Testament, one can see tantalizing evidence implying that the leader of this band of traitors to the community was in fact Paul, the apostle extraordinaire, who developed a theology of Christianity and introduced it to Gentiles.
...< . . omitted . . >
Paul is mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, not by name but by epithet, such as “the Spouter of Lies,” “the Man of Lying,” “the Scoffer,” or “the Jester.” Those who left the community with Paul are called “traitors with the man of lying.” Paul and his cohorts began proselytizing as he had while a member of the community, attempting to spread his new vision of a universal crucified Messiah.
...< . . omitted . . >
The vehemence the Dead Sea Scrolls express against the Spouter of Lies probably results from Paul changing the theology he was preaching in the Diaspora unbeknownst to the Qumran leaders. He apparently betrayed his oath to Mosaic law. Paul organized churches in Galatia, Corinth, Philippi, and Thessalonica, perhaps using community funds to finance start-up costs. At the very least the community funded Paul’s travel expenses.

At the meeting in Jerusalem with the community leadership which took place in about 50 CE, Paul attempted to convince the Qumran community to alter its theology in defiance of the Teacher of Righteousness. He was rebuffed, and Paul and his allies agreed to leave the community, but they agreed to repay the community-funded start-up costs. Paul then wanted to retain the churches he had established. For its part the Qumran community sent out additional apostles to try to get Paul's churches to stay in the Qumran community under Mosaic law.

Paul wrote letters to his churches explaining his theology, vilifying the Qumran apostles, and asking for donations to pay back the Jerusalem church for the start-up costs ...

Smith, The Bible Tells Me So: A Critical Analysis of the Jesus Myth (p. 16, 17, 18-19). Kindle Edition.




The Dead Sea Scrolls describe an expelled traitor to the community and Professor Robert Eisenman has theorized that this expelled traitor is the apostle Paul [James, the Brother of Jesus, p.259]. Among his many arguments in support of this conclusion, Eisenman points out that the scrolls call this traitor “the Spouter of Lies” and Paul apparently tries to refute this epithet in his letters writing that he is not lying [Rom 9:1; 2 Cor 11:31; Gal 1:20]. It is also relevant that all three times Paul writes in his letters that he is not lying, it is in the context of discussing his opponents.

Smith, The Bible Tells Me So (p. 50). Kindle Edition.


And

The Damascus Document and the Habakkuk Pesher discuss several times a traitor to the community who was expelled for disagreeing with the Teacher of Righteousness [Psalm 37 Pesher (4Q171) also mentions "the Liar," but only a general condemnation survives]. This traitor is called by several different derogatory names in the scrolls, but mainly as the Spouter of Lies. The Spouter of Lies is vilified for creating congregations based on blood,* for justifying the wicked, i.e., those not adhering to Mosaic law, and condemning the righteous, i.e., those who did adhere to Mosaic law.

The Damascus Document contains a description of a violent clash between the community and a congregation of the Spouter of Lies that occurred in Jewish territory. This is reported by Paul at 1 Thess 2:14–16. The Community Rule scroll levies two curses on agents of Belial (Satan) who do not follow Mosaic law. Paul responds to this at Gal 1:8–9. The Habakkuk Pesher condemns the Spouter of Lies and his fellow traitors for disagreeing with the interpretation of scripture by the Teacher of Righteousness during an assembly, suggesting that the Spouter of Lies and his cohorts separated from the community after that meeting. Paul gives his version of the meeting at Gal 2:1–10.

Smith, The Bible Tells Me So: (p. 362). Kindle Edition.


* ie. a crucifixion


gryan wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:41 am I think Paul's letters influenced the writer of Mark.
  • Many scholars have proposed, argued and concluded that. And several books have now been written to that effect. Some think Mark's Jesus is based on Paul. Oliver-Smith thinks Mark's James, Cephas/Peter and John are avatars of Paul's James, Cephas/Peter and John.
gryan
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by gryan »

@ MrMacSon

Thanks for these comments!

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and the First Christians, Robert Eisenman, Element books inc., 1996.

On the face of it, the hypothesis that "The Spouter of Lies" alludes to Paul seems plausible, but I have not studied the Dead Sea Scrolls. It appears that Oliver-Smith's hypothesis is based on an uncritical reception of Eisenman's argument.

Has Eiseman's argument that Dead Sea Scrolls allude to Paul been subjected to point by point scholarly critique?
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by schillingklaus »

Belial and Satan are two entirey different things; only apologists would identify them.
gryan
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by gryan »

Re: "The Community Rule scroll [from the Dead Sea Scrolls] levies two curses on agents of Belial (Satan) who do not follow Mosaic law [E.g. Paul]. Paul responds to this at Gal 1:8–9. (Smith, The Bible Tells Me So: (p. 362). Kindle Edition.)"

Gal 1:8-9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
schillingklaus wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:33 am Belial and Satan are two entirely different things...
@schillingklaus

Could you elaborate a bit on this argument against interpreting Belial (a demon?) as a name for Satan?
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by schillingklaus »

Satan is not an opponent of the Law and the Prophets but a strict servant of the Law, as described in Job and Zechariah. A son of belial is a worthless person.
gryan
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by gryan »

schillingklaus wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:02 am Satan is not an opponent of the Law and the Prophets but a strict servant of the Law, as described in Job and Zechariah. A son of belial is a worthless person.
Satan is often called an overzealous prosecutor under the law. A son of belial is a worthless person. That's convincing, from where I sit.

For reference, could you cite a published source for this argument? (Googling, I could not find any published argument along these lines.)
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by MrMacSon »

gryan wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:37 am On the face of it, the hypothesis that "The Spouter of Lies" alludes to Paul seems plausible, but I have not studied the Dead Sea Scrolls. It appears that Oliver-Smith's hypothesis is based on an uncritical reception of Eisenman's argument.
Smith outlines and discusses 'common phrases in the Scroll and Paul's letters' in a section by that name, including a table listing 27 of them.


Certainly both the Dead Sea Scrolls and Paul’s letters have an Old Testament background and some synchronicity is not surprising, but the above list implies that there is more to the coincidental language than merely having similar backgrounds. For example, both sets of documents quote the same Old Testament scripture; plus, one will not find phrases such as “circumcise the foreskin of your heart” in the Old Testament [ 1QpHab 11:13, 1QS 5:5; Romans 2:29 ] ...

... The scrolls and Paul’s letters are contemporaneous writings, and a close examination shows that they are related. The Habakkuk Pesher and Galatians describe the meeting that resulted in Paul leaving the community. The Damascus Document and 1 Thessalonians apparently describe the same event that took place in Judea, and Galatians contains Paul’s response to being cursed in The Community Rule [#134: It is possible that the Community Rule is responding to being cursed in Galatians].

It is also clear that both sets of documents describe the believers as awaiting the descent of a Messiah/Christ from Heaven. However, the scrolls contain no concept of the crucifixion, atoning sacrifice, or resurrection of this Messiah/Christ. One would expect that if the Messiah of the scrolls had been crucified and resurrected according to the Christology of the Qumran community, those events would have been referred to many times in the writings of the community.

Smith, David Oliver. The Bible Tells Me So: A Critical Analysis of the Jesus Myth (pp. 82, 83). Kindle Edition.


Smith notes the 'Christology' [Messianism] of the Qumran community is the same as that of Paul's opponents [the Jerusalem pillars].

He also notes and discusses another affinity between Paul's letters and the Dead Sea Scrolls: the use of pesher


... At Gal 3:8 Paul explains pesher when he first introduces the Galatians to the subject of Abraham and God’s promise to him. Here Paul says, “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the gospel to Abraham, ‘In you all the nations will be blessed’.” Paul is explaining that the scripture foresaw what God would do, meaning God’s inspiration of the writer of Genesis.

Paul also says at 1 Cor 11:23 that Christ’s last supper was revealed to him. In 1 Cor 10:2–4 Paul tells the Corinthians that the source of his revelation of the Eucharist is Exod 16:1—17:7 about God providing manna and water to the Israelites in the desert after they left Egypt. Paul is also referring to pesher at Rom 15:4 where he writes, “For whatever things were written long ago were written for our instruction. So that through patience and through encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope.” All through Paul’s letters he refers to and quotes Old Testament scripture to make his point. His references and quotes are typically out of context, and he is not saying that the prophet or psalmist he is quoting was aware that the writing would apply in a later time, but that God knew it would apply and gave Paul the insight to recognize the application.

Smith, The Bible Tells Me So (p. 85). Kindle Edition.




Table 2 - Comparison of the Scrolls and Paul's Letters [in part]

Dead Sea Scrolls
Paul's Letter
1. Awaiting a Messiah from Heaven1. Awaiting a Messiah from Heaven
4. Spouter of lies disagreed with interpretation by the Teacher of Righteousness [who may be James the Just]Paul disagreed with theology and Christology of his opponents [who include a James]
6. Spouter of Lies established churches based on a service of blood Paul established the Eucharist as a sacrament wherein his congregants symbolically drank the blood of the crucified Christ
10. The Habakkuk Pesher scroll describes an assembly of the community wherein the Man of Lying and his cohorts disputed the interpretation of scripture of the Teacher of RighteousnessGalatians describes a meeting between Paul and two companions with an assembly of the Jerusalem apostles where Paul disputes the theology of justification through the law of the assembly
11. The Damascus Document scroll describes a violent clash between the Qumran community and the churches of the “Man of Jesting” occurring in Jewish territory First Thessalonians describes a clash between the “churches of God in Judea” and a group of Jews wherein Paul was prevented from preaching
12. The Community Rule scroll twice curses those who oppose them In Galatians Paul twice curses those who oppose him.

Smith, The Bible Tells Me So, p.86f.


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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by MrMacSon »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:02 am

... The scrolls and Paul’s letters are contemporaneous writings ...


I guess it's possible someone wrote the character of Paul in the Pauline epistles at a significantly later date, based on the 'Spouter of Lies' (and other pseudonyms) and other aspects of the DSSs, but I guess that would likely make Paul a fictious character
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Re: Influence of Paul on Mark: Christ crucified (ἐσταυρωμένον)

Post by andrewcriddle »

gryan wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:37 am @ MrMacSon

Thanks for these comments!

Re: The Dead Sea Scrolls and the First Christians, Robert Eisenman, Element books inc., 1996.

On the face of it, the hypothesis that "The Spouter of Lies" alludes to Paul seems plausible, but I have not studied the Dead Sea Scrolls. It appears that Oliver-Smith's hypothesis is based on an uncritical reception of Eisenman's argument.

Has Eiseman's argument that Dead Sea Scrolls allude to Paul been subjected to point by point scholarly critique?
As I mentioned in another thread it probably dates the relevant Qumran documents too late.

Andrew Criddle
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