Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

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neilgodfrey
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by neilgodfrey »

Secret Alias wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:48 pmChris, Neil, Stephan one order. Bart another rank. Sorry.
You remind me of what my Chinese student house boarder said to me when she saw how our Parliament works. She was horrified that an opposition party and media would so bluntly question government authorities. Government's job was to govern, she said, and ours to support them -- she viewed her own "democracy" in China as far superior to what we have in Australia.

But in our system, the higher up you get, the more accountable you become. The more responsibility and rank you have, the more you are expected to avoid mistakes and do your job that meets the expectations of those who are ultimately funding you and voting for you.

If a teacher is lazy and passes on out of date or flat wrong information they do not deserve their rank and need to be censured, need to apologize and do better, or be removed from their rank. Certainly their failings need to be known widely so others can beware.
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John T
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by John T »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:22 pm

Rank and authorities have to be justified every time they are demonstrated. Otherwise you end up with a society ruled by the less than competent and the less than moral. We all have a responsibility to expect those with status or rank to justify their claims. Otherwise one ends up with what is in effect a cultic society.
I agree and so did Socrates. So, please provide your credentials.

"To be aware of one's own ignorance is true wisdom."...Socrates
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John T
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by John T »

Chris Hansen wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:25 pm I don't think mythicists are right. I'm not a mythicist. We've been over this John. This thread isn't about whether Bart is right or wrong on mythicism. It is about him being a careless researcher.
You mean unlike Carrier, Neil, and yourself?

Why do you treat mythicists on this forum as your useful idiots?

What is your end game?

Never mind, we already know. :facepalm:
Chrissy Hansen
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by Chrissy Hansen »

Please tell me what my end game is when I don't even publish on the subject and I receive no money for it?

And, I don't like Carrier and I think he is sloppy. I have yet to see how Neil is sloppy. You have yet to provide any evidence of this.

Why is it that you insist on being a belligerent thorn in this forum's side?
Secret Alias
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by Secret Alias »

You remind me of what my Chinese student house boarder said to me when she saw how our Parliament works
So when it comes time to fly the airplane it's roll the dice to decide between the pilot and the people in the first few rows for who does take off.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

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Secret Alias wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:02 pm
You remind me of what my Chinese student house boarder said to me when she saw how our Parliament works
So when it comes time to fly the airplane it's roll the dice to decide between the pilot and the people in the first few rows for who does take off.
No SA, when it comes time to fly the airplane the pilot is accountable to the passengers and the passengers -- or at least their relatives -- will hold their bosses to account if they plane crashes because the pilot was not exercising due care, was drunk, or whatever.

The pilot knows he is responsible for the passengers and he has to be accountable to them for their safety. If a pilot falls asleep or takes off before passenger luggage is loaded then the passengers will rightly find fault.

Accountability means what it says. It does not mean throwing the dice -- which is the opposite of accountability. Why do you twist things I say so bizarrely like that?
Secret Alias
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

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The decline of western civilization in a microcosm. Popular books aren't academic treatises. My Lord. I'm not even an Ehrman fanboy. I couldn't care less either way. Rightly or wrongly he went into writing about mythicists and mythicism as something not deserving a lot attention and seriousness. Not agreeing with that. But on some level it's reflective of the time the book was written. If I find typos in Mein Kampf that's not going to be the reason why I condemn the book.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by MrMacSon »

Chris Hansen wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:25 pm This thread isn't about whether Bart is right or wrong on mythicism. It is about him being a careless researcher.
Not just a careless researcher: a careless writer-commentator.

And it's noteworthy when he became noted for his carelessness ( in relation to a certain issue-subject ... )
Secret Alias
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

Post by Secret Alias »

And Ehrman miscites some modern witnesses in a book written for a popular audience = Ehrman is the same level as mountainman and internet people who write about the Bible.

Mountainman ignores Dura Europos clear evidence that Christianity existed in the third century to keep spamming about a fourth century invention of Christianity. All power to him.

Give me a break. Authority is good. A chaotic free for all is bad for any serious study of anything. I don't to factor in QAnon's opinion on medicine. I don't want to hear from mountainman's 4th century conspiracy nonsense. Not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Bart Ehrman -- another instance of not reading what he cites

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Secret Alias wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:16 pm The decline of western civilization in a microcosm. Popular books aren't academic treatises. My Lord. I'm not even an Ehrman fanboy. I couldn't care less either way. Rightly or wrongly he went into writing about mythicists and mythicism as something not deserving a lot attention and seriousness. Not agreeing with that. But on some level it's reflective of the time the book was written. If I find typos in Mein Kampf that's not going to be the reason why I condemn the book.
Please go back and read my first and second posts. I explained very clearly why Ehrman's error was not of the same order as typical typos. Please address the key points I have made and try to avoid red herrings, non-sequiturs, etc.

We are talking about a very prominent academic who is failing his readers who deserve better. I pointed out, keep in mind, that the one error I referenced was added evidence to what some of us have seen as a litany of failures, and it was significant because it is noted with some alarm by other academics who have no interest in mythicism.

Academics are not gods. They are not a higher order of species. They are persons who have had opportunities in life that have given them responsibilities and everyone is expected to live up to their responsibilities whatever they are.
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