Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:10 pm
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:57 pm
Not sure Origen is comparing Dositheus with Judah the Galilean as much as making observations
in
Contra Celsum 1:57 he does newly the comparison, even arriving to bypass the direct comparison with Jesus, so much he is disturbed by a such comparison
Contra Celsum 1:
57:
... we shall mention that there was a certain Theudas among the Jews before the birth of Christ, who gave himself out as some great one, after whose death his deluded followers were completely dispersed. And after him, in the days of the census, when Jesus appears to have been born, one Judas, a Galilean, gathered around him many of the Jewish people, saying he was a wise man, and a teacher of certain new doctrines. And when he also had paid the penalty of his rebellion, his doctrine was overturned, having taken hold of very few persons indeed, and these of the very humblest condition.
Origen must have got that information from Josephus.
And after the times of Jesus, Dositheus the Samaritan also wished to persuade the Samaritans that he was the Christ predicted by Moses; and he appears to have gained over some to his views. But it is not absurd, in quoting the extremely wise observation of that Gamaliel named in the book of Acts, to show how those persons above mentioned were strangers to the promise, being neither sons of God nor powers of God, whereas Christ Jesus was truly the Son of God.
Now Gamaliel, in the passage referred to, said: "
If this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought" (as also did the designs of those men already mentioned after their death); "
but if it be of God, you cannot overthrow this doctrine, lest haply you be found even to fight against God."
There was also Simon the Samaritan magician, who wished to draw away certain by his magical arts. And on that occasion he was successful; but now-a-days it is impossible to find, I suppose, thirty of his followers in the entire world, and probably I have even overstated the number. There are exceedingly few in Palestine. While, in the rest of the world, through which he desired to spread the glory of his name, you find it nowhere mentioned. And where it is found, it is found quoted from the Acts of the Apostles; so that it is to Christians that he owes this mention of himself, the unmistakeable result having proved that Simon was in no respect divine.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
That last bit about Simon is not true. Simonianism persisted and had its own document, the
Great Declaration, preserved in
Refutation of All Heresies 6