Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

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Giuseppe
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Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

Post by Giuseppe »

I am thinking on this sound comment by Samuel Krauss:

Signalons aussi Origène, toujouts bien informé, qui compare l'apparition de Dosithée avec celle de Juda le Galiléen. De la sorte, on appelle notre attention sur le caractère messianique de Dosithée, si bien que Dosithée se présenta comme Messie chez ls Samaritains, à l'instar de Jésus chez les Juifs. Il est naturel qu'Origène ait préféré comparer le Samaritan avec Juda plutôt qu'avec Jèsus, la messianité de Jésus étant à ses yeux infiniment supérieure à toutes les apparitions de meme ordre.

Translation via Deepl:
Let us also mention Origen, always well informed, who compares the appearance of Dositheus with that of Judah the Galilean. In this way he draws our attention to the messianic character of Dositheus, so that Dositheus presented himself as Messiah to the Samaritans, just as Jesus did to the Jews. It is natural that Origen preferred to compare the Samaritan with Judah rather than with Jesus, the messiahship of Jesus being in his eyes infinitely superior to all apparitions of the same kind.

RESUMING:
  • Origen would like to inform the readers that Dositheus had messianic claims.
  • ...But Origen knows that, by so doing, the risk is to compare DIRECTLY the Samaritan messianist Dositheus with the True Jewish Messiah Jesus Christ...
  • ....so the Origen's expedient is to compare the Samaritan messianist Dositheus with the Jewish messianist Judas the Galilean.
CONCLUSION:
By applying the Criterion of Embarrassment on Origen's reluctance to compare Dositheus with Jesus, contra factum that even only the fact that both Jesus and Dositheus were believed to be crucified by the same Pilate would have required naturally a comparison between the two Messiahs, the conclusion imposes itself: Origen was embarrassed by the fact that a Jewish Messiah (=Jesus) was crucified in Judea by Pilate and around the same time a Samaritan Messiah (=Dositheus) was crucified in Samaria by Pilate.



It is as if, as to messianic claims, one was the copy of the other, only the place of the crucifixion differed (Judea rather than Samaria and vice versa).

I contend that precisely this intriguing comparison is the key to detect the reason of the Oldest Gospel in the choice of Pilate as killer of the Gospel Jesus.


If Pilate deserved the title of: killer of the Samaritan Messiah, then accordingly the same Pilate had to deserve (by the Oldest Gospel) equally the title of: killer of the Jewish Messiah.


The particularity of the Samaria was that historically, that region had only one Messianist: Dositheus. At contrary, Judea had a lot of messianists (Judas the Galilean, Theudas, the "Egyptian", etc). Hence the importance of Dositheus had to increase naturally, since he was the only messianist appeared in Samariah.


Dositheus alone symbolized so much the entire Samaria, that an equivalent symbol for the Judea had to be himself (in the fiction) a contemporary of Dositheus, and by logical extension, of Pilate.

And so Pilate was chosen.
lsayre
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Re: Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

Post by lsayre »

I contend that Jesus only received that 'exhalted' name post death. Was he called Dositheus while he was alive?
Giuseppe
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Re: Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

Post by Giuseppe »

No, they were distinct figures: one invented ideal Messiah for Judeans had to be necessarily a contemporary of the only historical Samaritan Messiah.

As effect of his being the ONLY Samaritan Messiah appeared historically in Samaria, Dositheus sanctified his time [== the time "under Pilate"] as the time where his Judean equivalent had to be placed.
schillingklaus
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Re: Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

Post by schillingklaus »

There still is no such thing as a Samaritan messiah, historical or not.

Dositheos just means God's gift, and it is the gnosis. Judaizers abusively turned this into YHWH's gift and made it a historical agent predicted by the Old Testament.
Giuseppe
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Re: Origen is disturbed by Dositheus being contemporary of Jesus: implications about Pilate

Post by Giuseppe »

Even in that case ("Dositheus" as mere Gnostic symbol), the late identification of Dositheus with the unnamed Samaritan false prophet slain by Pilate mentioned by Josephus would have made the latter the (unique and only) Samaritan Messiah who sanctified the time for the Judean Messiah, in the eyes of the inventors of a human Jesus called Christ.
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