What does Ctus mean?

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StephenGoranson
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by StephenGoranson »

I replied since no one else had.
Ctus. in that quoted work was, almost ineluctably, an abbreviation for Christus.
Irenaeus text is available online; it includes the relevant spelled-out collocations, if interested.
You asked for a title for the Sagnard edition ("A title would help"), so I gave that. I had assumed that you could, on WorldCat, easily locate it.
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Ken Olson
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by Ken Olson »

neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm The article is in Spanish. "Ctus." keeps appearing and it's bugging me. Can somebody help out, please?
Tales datos no son únicos. El Cristo Superior figura muchas veces y en idéntico sentido. Es el Sursum Christus, Susum Ctus., Superior Ctus., De superioribus Ctus., In superioribus Ctus., Desuper Ctus., o simplemente el Cristo Eón del Pleroma valentiniano 11.

11 Véase el index de Sagnard SCh. 34 p. 452 donde van recogidos únicamente los términos que figuran en el libro III adv. haer.
In the index is this entry:
Christus ║ Superior 162 ss. / su crucifixión 168 ss. 173 ss. / ley de μίμησις en la crucifixión 169 s. / Animalis: su crucifixión 170 / Superior Ctus. = Primus Homo 187
  • Orbe, Antonio. Los primeros herejes ante la persecución. Analecta Gregoriana. Romae: Apud aedes Universitatis Gregorianae, 1956.
It looks like an abbreviation for Christ but I'm looking for something definite to pin it down. Thanks.
Neil,

Sorry, I don't actually have any prior knowledge of the abbreviation Ctus., nor do I know of a standard reference work that has an entry for it, but I think you are correct that it is an abbreviation for Christus. From the two examples you give, it looks like the rule being followed is to write out the word Christus the first time (in any given entry) and abbreviate it Ctus. after that.

The first entry you quote identifies the Superior Christ (or Higher Christ or Christ Above) in Spanish and then lists a number of equivalent terms in Latin, with the Latin word Christus (in Sursum Christus) written out the first time and then abbreviated Ctus. in the subsequent items on the list.

In the entry from the index, Christus is written out the first time (Christus Superior) and abbreviated the second time, where Superior Ctus. is identified with Primus Homo (or first man, you could check p. 187 to see if that makes sense.)

I hope that's helpful.

Best,

Ken
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neilgodfrey
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by neilgodfrey »

Ken Olson wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:54 pm
neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm From the two examples you give, it looks like the rule being followed is to write out the word Christus the first time (in any given entry) and abbreviate it Ctus. after that.
Thanks, Ken, --- and yes, the longer I looked at it the closer the point you are making gradually came to me. I word searched the rest of the volume and found that those were the only uses of Ctus. so that with your analysis pretty much seals the case.
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MrMacSon
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by MrMacSon »

neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm
The article is in Spanish. "Ctus." keeps appearing and it's bugging me. Can somebody help out, please?
Tales datos no son únicos. El Cristo Superior figura muchas veces y en idéntico sentido. Es el Sursum Christus, Susum Ctus., Superior Ctus., De superioribus Ctus., In superioribus Ctus., Desuper Ctus., o simplemente el Cristo Eón del Pleroma valentiniano 11.

11 Véase el index de Sagnard SCh. 34 p. 452 donde van recogidos únicamente los términos que figuran en el libro III adv. haer.
In the index is this entry:
Christus ║ Superior 162 ss. / su crucifixión 168 ss. 173 ss. / ley de μίμησις en la crucifixión 169 s. / Animalis: su crucifixión 170 / Superior Ctus. = Primus Homo 187
  • Orbe, Antonio. Los primeros herejes ante la persecución. Analecta Gregoriana. Romae: Apud aedes Universitatis Gregorianae, 1956.
It looks like an abbreviation for Christ but I'm looking for something definite to pin it down. Thanks.

  • What does 'Primus Homo' refer to?
  • And '187' ?
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neilgodfrey
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by neilgodfrey »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:53 pm
neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm
The article is in Spanish. "Ctus." keeps appearing and it's bugging me. Can somebody help out, please?
Tales datos no son únicos. El Cristo Superior figura muchas veces y en idéntico sentido. Es el Sursum Christus, Susum Ctus., Superior Ctus., De superioribus Ctus., In superioribus Ctus., Desuper Ctus., o simplemente el Cristo Eón del Pleroma valentiniano 11.

11 Véase el index de Sagnard SCh. 34 p. 452 donde van recogidos únicamente los términos que figuran en el libro III adv. haer.
In the index is this entry:
Christus ║ Superior 162 ss. / su crucifixión 168 ss. 173 ss. / ley de μίμησις en la crucifixión 169 s. / Animalis: su crucifixión 170 / Superior Ctus. = Primus Homo 187
  • Orbe, Antonio. Los primeros herejes ante la persecución. Analecta Gregoriana. Romae: Apud aedes Universitatis Gregorianae, 1956.
It looks like an abbreviation for Christ but I'm looking for something definite to pin it down. Thanks.

  • What does 'Primus Homo' refer to?
  • And '187' ?
Primus Homo is the First Man.

It's not an easy read .... e.g.
This time none of the Latin versions seems to have guessed the technicality of the Greek text. The clause κατασυρείς ούν έκεϊνος refers to the Primus Homo [= Aeon Anthropos], who being hitherto in the Pleroma [=Fullness] decides to descend to the Kenoma [=Emptiness], casting himself upon the Cross which divides heaven from earth [ = the Pleroma of the Kenoma] adopting the posture of St. Peter, head downwards.
Gnostic texts -- they pull my brain tissue into knots as I read ... and the original text being in Spanish with loads of Latin extracts doesn't help.

The number 187 is just the page number. I was quoting a passage from the index. I should have cut that number out, sorry.
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MrMacSon
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by MrMacSon »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:25 pm Primus Homo is the First Man
Cheers Neil. That's what I figured (though wondered if it was [also] a reference to a book (or the like) by that title, especially with the italics]


neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:25 pm
It's not an easy read .... e.g.
This time none of the Latin versions seems to have guessed the technicality of the Greek text. The clause κατασυρείς ούν έκεϊνος refers to the Primus Homo [= Aeon Anthropos], who being hitherto in the Pleroma [=Fullness] decides to descend to the Kenoma [=Emptiness], casting himself upon the Cross which divides heaven from earth [ = the Pleroma of the Kenoma] adopting the posture of St. Peter, head downwards.
The number 187 is just the page number. I was quoting a passage from the index. I should have cut that number out, sorry.
No problem re including '187'. Is that quote from p. 187 ?

Primus Homo...decides to descend to the Kenoma, casting himself upon the Cross which divides heaven from earth, adopting the posture of St. Peter, head downwards.

or, perhaps, St Peter [later] adopted the posture of a/the gnostic entity (?)


"the Cross which divides heaven from earth" is a concept I don't recall being aware of before: it seems interesting, and perhaps significant*

* eg. significant more widely, such as, -
  • in the discussion of middle Platonism and its influence on Christianity
  • in the discussion of potential cross-over between Valentinianism and orthodox Christianity



From the OP:
neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm
Tales datos no son únicos. El Cristo Superior figura muchas veces y en idéntico sentido. Es el Sursum Christus, Susum Ctus., Superior Ctus., De superioribus Ctus., In superioribus Ctus., Desuper Ctus., o simplemente el Cristo Eón del Pleroma valentiniano 11.

11 Véase el index de Sagnard SCh. 34 p. 452 donde van recogidos únicamente los términos que figuran en el libro III adv. haer.


[translation from Spanish to English via Microsoft Word]

Such data is not unique. The 'Upper Christ' appears many times and in the same sense. It is the Sursum Christus, Susum Ctus., Superior Ctus., De superioribus Ctus., In superioribus Ctus., Desuper Ctus., or simply the Christ Aeon of the Valentinian Pleroma 11.

11 See Sagnard's index SCh. 34 p. 452, which contains only the terms in Book III adv. haer.


I'm not sure whether 'Upper Christ' is a good translation for 'El Cristo Superior': perhaps 'Heavenly Christ' or similar ... (?)

From Google Translate : *Detect Language* => Latin Detected:

  • Sursum Christus = Christ is up
  • Susum Ctus = Ctus above
  • De superioribus Ctus = Of the former Ctus
  • In superioribus Ctus = In the previous Ctus
  • Desuper Ctus = Above Ctus


neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:25 pm Gnostic texts -- they pull my brain tissue into knots as I read ... and the original text being in Spanish with loads of Latin extracts doesn't help.
Me too. I bet the mix of Spanish & Latin is hard work, as having to translate the above passage from both Spanish and Latin shows
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neilgodfrey
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by neilgodfrey »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:08 pm No problem re including '187'. Is that quote from p. 187 ?
It's the page in Orbe's Los Primeros Hherjes Ante La Persecucio where the term is located.

I'm not in a position to discuss anything more about Orbe's ideas at this stage, unfortunately. I need more time to digest them and work out exactly what his justifications for various statements are.
StephenGoranson
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Re: What does Ctus mean?

Post by StephenGoranson »

Reading this thread again, maybe I should have initially responded by including mention (as Ken later did) that Ctus. is not a common scholarly abbreviation.
That the cited pairs of words, when Ctus. is expanded to Christus, find confirmation in the Latin version(s) of Irenaeus book 3 (available online), where he wrote against gnosticism. And maybe if I gave examples with numbered quotes and links that solution would have been more easy to understand.
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