The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

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rgprice
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The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by rgprice »

I'll acknowledge that this is a somewhat problematic topic. Firstly, what is meant by "original"? I have come to the conclusion that Canonical Mark contains many alterations that were not part of the earliest form of the Gospel.

But what could be defined as the "original form of Mark"? If Mark was not the first such Gospel, i.e. if Marcion's Gospel preceded Mark, then would that be considered "original Mark"?

For this exercise I would propose that there was some form of the Gospel of Mark that very closely resembles the canonical version and that Canonical Mark contains primarily additions to a prior version of Mark. I believe that the most significant additions are at the end of the story. But I'm definitely not certain about how the "original" story may have ended. So, what cases can be presented for various endings?

Proposed "original endings":

1) Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw that He died in this way, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”

2) Mark 16:7-8 But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.’” And they went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

3) Something else.

Endings past 16:8 are regarded as certainly later additions.

However, there is a possibility (option 3) that that the "original ending" of Mark is not preserved at all. It may have gone past 15:39, but been different from what we find in the current Gospel.

Argument in favor of #1:

Throughout the Gospel of Mark the scenes are almost entirely composed of scriptural references and/or references to the Pauline letters. Indeed, the crucifixion scene makes extensive use of scriptural references. Yet, the scriptural references, as far as I can see, stop with 15:39 (or perhaps technically with 15:36).

15:40 names Mary Magdalene with no introduction, as if we should know who she is, and then provides a retroactive account of women that had apparently been a part of the story all along but were never mentioned before. Quite strange.

The nature of 15:40-47 seems gratuitously explanatory, unlike the rest of Mark. It all looks quite contrived, which is out of character for Mark.

16:7 seems almost impossible to reconcile with the rest of the story. The entire narrative of Mark works diligently to discredit Peter specifically and all of the disciples in general. Peter and the rest of the disciples had just abandoned Jesus. They were not witnesses to the crucifixion. Why would they be summoned now? Are they really going to be made witnesses to the resurrection when they didn't even witness the crucifixion? I hardly think so.

Argument in favor of #2:
All the extant texts contain material up through 16:8.

Almost all variants of the Gospel story are witnesses to longer endings that contain Mary Magdalene and Joseph of Arimathea.

One could argue that the "original" ending ran though 16:8, but did not include 16:7. In other words one could argue for the ending:
5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed. 6 But he said to them, “Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; see, here is the place where they laid Him. 8 And they went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

This would address one of the objections of position #1, while still essentially preserving the ending up through 16:8.

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The arguments I've presented are not extensive or necessarily very sophisticated. What more sophisticated arguments can be put forward in favor of these propositions?
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by neilgodfrey »

That Mark 16:8 should be the original and intended ending would be ironically [irony -- remember Mark is all about irony] consistent with the refrain throughout the gospel that those commanded to silence (including the demons) should speak aloud to all they encountered. Then when the symbolic rep of Christ (compare the man losing his garment, symbolic of death, at the start of the Passion with the clothed man in the tomb representing the risen Christ) commands others to speak, they are silent. Typical ironical-reversing Mark.
dbz
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by dbz »

It can not be assumed that we have the autograph Markan text. Perhaps our extant Markan text has been through a major redaction(s) in response to Marcion of Sinope, who may of authored the original featuring the Good (chrestos ) Redeemer (iourgós | ιουργός | ΙΟΥΡΓΌΣ). N.B. There is no extant MS with Greek δημιουργός or dēmiurgós being shortened to just iourgós. It is an unevidenced hypothetical.

Nomina sacra: A nomen sacrum consists of two or more letters from the original word spanned by an overline, viz. we do not “know” what the nomina sacra represent, hypothecially Jesus Christ or perhaps not! All known early MSS use only nomina sacra!
  • Lord IS revealed himself to his first devotee and said many wise thing to him. Said devotee gave Lord IS the cognomem XS, and started a cult called XSians.
See: Nomina sacra commentary by Stephan Huller at: “The Jewish Myth Of Jesus - Stephan Huller”. YouTube.
Charles Wilson
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by Charles Wilson »

http://www.michaelturton.com/Mark/GMark16.html#16X :

"It is impossible to reconstruct a chiasm from the remaining verses.

2: And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.
3: And they were saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the door of the tomb?"
4: And looking up, they saw that the stone was rolled back; -- it was very large.
5: And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe; and they were amazed.
6: And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen, he is not here; see the place where they laid him.
7: But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you."
8: And they went out and fled from the tomb; for trembling and astonishment had come upon them; and they said nothing to any one, for they were afraid.

There is no A' bracket to oppose v2, a bracket involving movement from one geographical location to another. v8 resembles a very typical B' bracket that should be followed by an A' bracket reading, in typical Markan style, something like: "And they returned to Jerusalem."


A
And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.

B
And they were saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the door of the tomb?"


C
And looking up, they saw that the stone was rolled back; -- it was very large.



D
And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe; and they were amazed.



D
And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen, he is not here; see the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you."


C
And they went out and fled from the tomb; for trembling and astonishment had come upon them;

B
and they said nothing to any one, for they were afraid.
A
It was the last day of the feast of the unleavened bread and many people were going out, returning to their houses since the festival was over. (Gospel of Peter)

The lack of an A bracket to oppose 16:2 suggests that the Gospel originally ended at some point past 16:8, and that the current ending was not in fact the original ending."
Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin »

rgprice wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:59 amThe arguments I've presented are not extensive or necessarily very sophisticated. What more sophisticated arguments can be put forward in favor of these propositions?
Here are arguments from members

rgprice wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:59 am1) Mark 15:39
Bernard Muller: Who wrote the "empty tomb" passage in Mark's gospel?
2) List of the clues suggesting Mk 15:40-16:8 as being an early interpolation:


rgprice wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:59 am3) Something else.
Ben C. Smith: The (lost) ending of Mark
It is, rather, simply a summary of my own thinking on the matter, and of why I have come down on the side of regarding it as probable that Mark was not intended to end at 16.8.

gryan
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by gryan »

Mk 16:8
Trembling
https://biblehub.com/greek/5156.htm
and exstatic,
the women went out and fled from the tomb.
They said nothing to anyone, because they were
afraid.
https://biblehub.com/greek/5156.htm

Cf. Phil 2:12
"...in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..."

I've been wondering about the ending of Mark, off and on, all my adult life. My intro to NT prof in my freshman year of college was working on a PhD dissertation on that ending. He introduced me to the two source hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-source_hypothesis

I later learned that he never completed his PhD.

Currently, the fearful ending strikes me as, not a mistake, but as a very literary cliffhanger ending.
gryan
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by gryan »

PS. Regarding historicity, I don't imagine that there was a literal "empty tomb" mystery. Rather, I see that as a metaphor.

Something I read by Adela Yarbro Collins convinced me of this:

"Adela Yarbro Collins, for example, explains the Markan narrative as a Markan deduction from an early Christian belief in the resurrection. She classifies it as a translation story, meaning a story of the removal of a newly-immortal hero to a non-Earthly realm."
Last edited by gryan on Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
rgprice
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by rgprice »

A cliffhanger would imply a sequel.

I really can't get past 16:7. I don't see how that could possibly fit with the rest of the story.

Turton suggests possibly a longer lost ending, which could be, but couldn't it also just be that the whole thing should be scrapped?

I find the introduction of previously unmentioned women who had supposedly been following Jesus all along quite problematic.

Luke introduced Mary Magdalene in chapter 8.

8 1: Soon afterward, Jesus began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.

This is what I would expect. One can argue that Luke has added this material when copying from Mark precisely because the introduction of these figures at the end seems so strange. But that in itself acknowledges that the late introduction is strange and would be seen as something that needed correction.

It seems to me that what we have is a harmonization, in which the ending of Mark was harmonized to an extent with the others when it was put into the four Gospel collection, and every copy of Mark we have derives from the four Gospel collection.

Are there reasons to reject such a proposition?
rgprice
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by rgprice »

gryan wrote: imho, hhe mortal life of the community of readers--worked out with "fear and trembling"--is the sequel.
Hah, got ya before you deleted your post! :lol:

Well, I have argued in the past that the Pauline letters were the sequel. Peter and the others never saw the risen Jesus because they were never told to meet him. It was left to Paul to reveal the heavenly Jesus. If I were to accept this ending, that's how I would interpret it.
Last edited by rgprice on Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
gryan
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Re: The "original" ending of Mark (present the cases)

Post by gryan »

rgprice wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:25 am
Luke introduced Mary Magdalene in chapter 8.

8 1: Soon afterward, Jesus began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.

@rgprice

Yes, I posted and deleted because I didn't want to take attention away from a very interesting point in the previous point.

As you observed, this is what you would expect in a coherent literary work, and Lk is the only Gospel with this passage. I had not thought about that before.

Off the cuff, I would explain it as something the author of Mk probably knew and took for granted, but for whatever reason, chose not to publish.
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