Mais si le christianisme s'est constitué autour du sacrifice d'un agneau qui, chargé des péchés de la secte, encourait à sa place la malédiction divine, la légende, en s'évhémérisant, devait naturellement faire périr le Messie de la manière humaine correspondante, c'est-à-dire du supplice le plus ignominieux.
L'idée que le messianisme se trouve impliqué dans le rite de la Pâque m'a été suggérée par M. le Dr Paul-Louis Couchoud.
(Jean Pain, Jésus dieu de la Pâque, p. 238, n. 1)
The argument is very powerful, that Jesus/Joshua was identified with the Angel DESTRUCTOR sent by YHWH to kill the Egyptians. Now it is explained definitely why the same Angel is both a Lamb and a celestial Warrior in the Book of Revelation.
The book of Jean Pain must to be soon digitalized to reach the largest audience.
I made it "public domain" after searching for the author's date of death and not finding it anywhere --- I'm assuming he's been dead for 70 years by now so there will be no problem with copyright.
L'idée que le messianisme se trouve impliqué dans le rite de la Pâque m'a été suggérée par M. le Dr Paul-Louis Couchoud.
(Jean Pain, Jésus dieu de la Pâque, p. 238, n. 1)
The argument is very powerful, that Jesus/Joshua was identified with the Angel DESTRUCTOR sent by YHWH to kill the Egyptians. Now it is explained definitely why the same Angel is both a Lamb and a celestial Warrior in the Book of Revelation.
The book of Jean Pain must to be soon digitalized to reach the largest audience.
L'idée que le messianisme se trouve impliqué dans le rite de la Pâque m'a été suggérée par M. le Dr Paul-Louis Couchoud.
(Jean Pain, Jésus dieu de la Pâque, p. 238, n. 1)
The argument is very powerful, that Jesus/Joshua was identified with the Angel DESTRUCTOR sent by YHWH to kill the Egyptians. Now it is explained definitely why the same Angel is both a Lamb and a celestial Warrior in the Book of Revelation.
The book of Jean Pain must to be soon digitalized to reach the largest audience.
From what I've read so far it looks like Jean Pain's explanation for the origins of Christianity are very similar to the ideas I have been entertaining. A main difference is that I see the Jewish Wars as catalysts. The "passover" was in some way identified with the Jewish nation. The idea emerged after the first Jewish War but the narrative itself after the second.
neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:52 amA main difference is that I see the Jewish Wars as catalysts.
Probably Pain opts for a pre-70 origin because of the singular coincidence of the "Angel of the Lord" or Angel Destructor (killer of the Egyptian firstborns) in Exodus resembling so strictly in nuce what the OT Joshua would have personified shortly after. The impression I have is that the author himself of Exodus had these similarities in mind, so probably an angel called Joshua/Jesus was already adored in pre-christian times.
neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:52 amA main difference is that I see the Jewish Wars as catalysts.
Probably Pain opts for a pre-70 origin because of the singular coincidence of the "Angel of the Lord" or Angel Destructor (killer of the Egyptian firstborns) in Exodus resembling so strictly in nuce what the OT Joshua would have personified shortly after. The impression I have is that the author himself of Exodus had these similarities in mind, so probably an angel called Joshua/Jesus was already adored in pre-christian times.
This question has probably been done to death here, so maybe you can point me to an appropriate thread. The difficulty I have with a thesis of a "pre-Christian Jesus cult" is the lack of evidence for it. Or am I overlooking something?
neilgodfrey wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:21 pmThe difficulty I have with a thesis of a "pre-Christian Jesus cult" is the lack of evidence for it. Or am I overlooking something?
no, my point was more modestly that the connections and similarities signaled by Jean Pain, within the text of Exodus, between the "Angel Destructor" (or "Angel of the Lord") and the OT Joshua are enough visible for the possibility that they could be inferred/made explicit by someone even before the 70 CE.
