ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

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MrMacSon
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ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

Post by MrMacSon »

Joshua 8:29


καὶ τὸν βασιλέα τῆς Γαι ἐκρέμασεν ἐπὶ ξύλου διδύμου
And the. King ....of. Ai .he.hung. upon tree twofold/double

.καὶ ἦν . ἐπὶ .τοῦ ξύλου ἕως [καιρού της] ἑσπέρας
And he was.on the tree until [the.time.of.the] evening

. καὶ. ἐπιδύνοντος .τοῦ ἡλίου συνέταξεν Ἰησοῦς καὶ καθείλοσαν τὸ αὐτοῦ σῶμα ἀπὸ τοῦ ξύλου
And at.the.setting.of the sun Joshua gave orders and they.lowered ...his body ..from .the. tree

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lxx/jos/8/1/s_195001 and
https://studybible.info/interlinear/Joshua%208


διδύμου is the genitive singular form of δίδυμος (dídymos)

And δίδυμος means either
  1. double, twofold; or
  2. twin
So, what does 'ξύλου διδύμου' mean here ?


καὶ τὸν βασιλέα τῆς Γαι ἐκρέμασεν ἐπὶ . ξύλου διδύμου
And the. King ....of. Ai .he*.hung. upon [a] twofold/double tree


  • 'he' being Joshua ie. Joshua hung the King of Ai upon a tree
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DCHindley
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Re: ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

Post by DCHindley »

MrMacSon wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:04 am Joshua 8:29


καὶ τὸν βασιλέα τῆς Γαι ἐκρέμασεν ἐπὶ ξύλου διδύμου
And the. King ....of. Ai .he.hung. upon tree twofold/double

.καὶ ἦν . ἐπὶ .τοῦ ξύλου ἕως [καιρού της] ἑσπέρας
And he was.on the tree until [the.time.of.the] evening

. καὶ. ἐπιδύνοντος .τοῦ ἡλίου συνέταξεν Ἰησοῦς καὶ καθείλοσαν τὸ αὐτοῦ σῶμα ἀπὸ τοῦ ξύλου
And at.the.setting.of the sun Joshua gave orders and they.lowered ...his body ..from .the. tree

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lxx/jos/8/1/s_195001 and
https://studybible.info/interlinear/Joshua%208


διδύμου is the genitive singular form of δίδυμος (dídymos)

And δίδυμος means either
  1. double, twofold; or
  2. twin
So, what does 'ξύλου διδύμου' mean here ?


καὶ τὸν βασιλέα τῆς Γαι ἐκρέμασεν ἐπὶ . ξύλου διδύμου
And the. King ....of. Ai .he*.hung. upon [a] twofold/double tree


  • 'he' being Joshua ie. Joshua hung the King of Ai upon a tree
Based on 8:25 etc it appears that "twelve thousand" died in the sack of the city of Ai, and this includes all the residents they could catch, probably including the king. It does not explicitly say that the king of Ai was alive at the time he was strung up, or died before the evening when he was taken down. That he must have been dead by the time he is removed from the twin wood/tree is clear, as they threw his body into the cesspool outside the city, then heaped stones on him to mark the spot.

My first impression is that, here, ξύλου διδύμου refers to a tree root that had two trunks, a "Y" shape. We have a tree like this in our backyard. If this is correct, this would suggest that Joshua had found a prominent tree of this nature, and the body of the king of Ai was strung up on it as a public display for Joshua's enemies to see that Joshua and his God had prevailed.

It could simply mean that this "tree/wood" was two stakes from the same log, "twin stakes." Then I would think of an "X" or "I I" shaped display apparatus.

Either interpretation is feasible, but a lack of alternate descriptions of this same event do not exist (I think), which makes it impossible to choose one, the other, or a third explanation.

Unfortunately, the same problem exists in NT research when it comes to Jesus Christ.

DCH
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MrMacSon
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Re: ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

Post by MrMacSon »

DCHindley wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:03 am
My first impression is that, here, ξύλου διδύμου refers to a tree root that had two trunks, aξύλου "Y" shape. We have a tree like this in our backyard. If this is correct, this would suggest that Joshua had found a prominent tree of this nature, and the body of the king of Ai was strung up on it as a public display for Joshua's enemies to see that Joshua and his God had prevailed.
Hi DC. That was kinda my impression: I was thinking a tree with a trunk that then had tow main branches in a Y shape.

Most English version have hung/hanged on a tree (* I forgot to consider to 'wood' for xulon)

Some have Ai impaled on a pole (which was another reason to consider 'wood')

So, as you say:
DCHindley wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:03 am It could simply mean that this "tree/wood" was two stakes from the same log, "twin stakes." Then I would think of an "X" or "I I" shaped display apparatus.
It may just refer to something like two smallish, untrimmed logs or sapling branches

I had looked at the Greek wondering if 'stauros' might be in there, but No.

and I'm interested in Joshua 8 for other reasons, such as the spear / javelin that Joshua used
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MrMacSon
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Re: ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

Post by MrMacSon »

And, of course, I should have looked up ξύλου, which is the genitive of ξύλον (second declension)

  1. (mostly in plural) cut wood, timber
    .. Synonyms: κᾶλον (kâlon), κάστον (káston)
  2. piece of wood, log, beam, post
  3. cudgel, club, stick
  4. an instrument of punishment: wooden collar, stocks, gallows, stake
  5. bench, table
  6. tree
  7. blockhead

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BE%C ... E%BF%CE%BD

And see https://biblehub.com/greek/xulou_3586.htm
AdamKvanta
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Re: ξύλου διδύμου in Joshua 8:29a

Post by AdamKvanta »

All information is from this book:
Crucifixion in the Mediterranean World
John Granger Cook
ISBN 978-3-16-153124-8
2014 by Mohr Siebeck, Tübingen

Introduction § 3.5
Origen probably used the LXX’s expression ξύλου διδύμου to describe the object in his homilies on Joshua, and Rufinus translated the expression as ligno gemino. Origen’s interpretation of the text, however, is that Jesus was on a double cross (crux gemina fuit) – one was the cross on which he was crucified in the flesh, and the other was an invisible cross on which the devil along with the principalities and powers was fixed [or nailed] (diabolus ... affixus est cruci). However, Jerome, using the Hebrew expression for the tree on which the king was suspended, – על העץ – translated with in patibulo. That translation was more accurate due to his knowledge of Hebrew, which Origen probably lacked for the most part. Jerome also interpreted the object to be a cross since patibulum and crux are syntactically interchangeable and thus nearly semantically equivalent in the Vulgate.
Chapter 3 § 1.8
The suspension in Josh 8:29 LXX probably is post-mortem (cp. 8:24): And he suspended the king of Ai on a forked tree, and he was on the tree until the evening (καὶ τὸν βασιλέα τῆς Γαι ἐκρέμασεν ἐπὶ ξύλου διδύμου, καὶ ἦν ἐπὶ τοῦ ξύλου ἕως ἑσπέρας·). The “forked tree” indicates that it is not an impalement, and it may be compared with the punishment by furca in the Joshua codex.
Chapter 3 § 10.4
The argument of this section is that the verb ανασοκολοπίζειν came to be used for the punishment of the furca (Y) in the East, which is illustrated in the famous Joshua Roll (Josh 8:29 and 10:26) and the Vienna Genesis’s depiction of the baker’s punishment (figure 16).343
343 ... Suda Δ § 870 defines Διδύμον ξύλον as ή παρὰ Ῥωμαίοις φοῦρκα (forked tree, the furca of the Romans)...
Joshua Roll (Josh 8:29)
Byzantine MS [X C.E.] Cod. Vat. Pal. gr. 431 fol. 11r:
https://digi.vatlib.it/pub/digit/MSS_Pa ... native.jpg

Chapter 4 § 2
In Gen 40:19, Deut 21:22-23, Josh 8:29, and 10:26 the same construction, “suspend on a tree/gibbet,” is used. These texts, with the possible exception of Gen 40:19 and Josh 8:29, describe post-mortem suspensions.29
29 The fact that Josh 10:26 is a case of post-mortem suspension indicates the same practice in 8:29. The king was dead by evening when Joshua removed him.
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