Plato and the Pentateuch

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
ABuddhist
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by ABuddhist »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:19 am I can't even imagine how the description of the dialogue between God and Moses would have taken place if Greek was assumed to be the original language.
But in the model which we are discussing, Hebrew was assumed to be the orginal language but was not - because people pretended (and later came to believe) that the Greek was a later translation from a Hebrew orginal.
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

But that is not true. The Hebrew and the Greek pentateuchs differ in their textual contents in many ways.
And how do you explain that with Gmirkin's theory? Please indulge me with some mental gymnastics.
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

because people pretended (and later came to believe) that the Greek was a later translation from a Hebrew orginal.
And Philo whose ancestors likely worked on the translation or knew those who did was in on the conspiracy?
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

You understand how priestly families work. There were only a few in ancient Alexandria. They wouldn't have expanded, maybe they contracted. But like the Samaritans the same families were on top in 270 BCE and 40 CE. Three hundred years of the same people in charge.
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_High_Priest

Since 1623/24, the office of high priest has been passed down in a family traced back to Aaron's grandson Itamar. After the death of a high priest, the office passes to the oldest male in that family, unless he has entered into a marriage that disqualifies him from the high priesthood.[3]

It appears, based upon the larger gaps in time between high priests, that several names might be missing, or that there were long periods of vacancy between priests.

The continuous lineage of Samaritan High Priests, descending directly from Aaron, through his son Eleazar, and his son Phinehas, was however disrupted in the early 17th century. In 1624, Shalma I ben Phinehas, the last Samaritan High Priest of the line of Eleazar son of Aaron died without male succession, but descendants of Aaron's other son, Ithamar, remained and took over the office.[4]

There are four families within the house of Ithamar. The Åbtå order, descended from the 113th High Priest Tsedaka ben Tabia, which has held the office of the High Priesthood since 1624; the House of Phineas a.k.a. Dār 'Åder, descended from Fīn'ās ban Yīṣ'å̄q (Phineas ben Isaac); Dār Yīṣ'å̄q, descended from Yīṣ'å̄q ban Åmrām (Isaac ben Amram); and Dār Yāqob, descended from Yāqob ban Årron (Jacob ben Aaron).
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

So for the last 400 years the same priestly families have been in charge of the Samaritan community just as in the Alexandrian Jewish community it would have been the same families, friends and relatives of the original translators, who were in charge. Why doesn't Philo know the bullshit Gmirkin is preaching. Has to be a conspiracy to account for his silence. He knows but doesn't want to tell us "the facts."
ABuddhist
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by ABuddhist »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:23 am Tāranātha (1575–1634) was a Lama of the Jonang school of Tibetan Buddhism.

Last I checked Philo lived and walked in the same place the LXX was "written." He doesn't speak a word of Hebrew. He used onomastica. He knew the text was written in Hebrew. Why doesn't he know of one piece of evidence referring to the original composition of the text in Greek by fellow Alexandrians. He probably knew descendants of the original translators. None of this information got down to him. Why is that? Could it be it's a bullshit theory?
But Tāranātha, like Philo, was learned, eager to assimulate his religious tradition into a broader intellectual milieau.

As for your words about Philo, was Philo a historian? I am not aware that he was. Tāranātha was, among other things, a historian, but he was unable in his inquiry to accedt that Mahayana Buddhist scriptures were later forgeries ewven though such accusations are found within Tibetan scholarly literature. How could Philo, not facing suh accusations and a devout Jew, have accepted that the Pentateuch was originally written in Greek. This has no direct bearing upon whether the Pentateuch was written in Greek, although the fact that we have no recorded allegations about this suggests but does not prove that it was orginally written in Hebrew. In this, I agree with you.
ABuddhist
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by ABuddhist »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:26 am You understand how priestly families work. There were only a few in ancient Alexandria. They wouldn't have expanded, maybe they contracted. But like the Samaritans the same families were on top in 270 BCE and 40 CE. Three hundred years of the same people in charge.
What bearing does that have upon the original anguage or dating of the Pentateuch? None, I think. If the pentateuch was new, the priests would have conspired to make it seem older as happened with Mormonism. If the pentateuch was old, then the priests really were hereditary keepers of ancient lore.
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

But Tāranātha, like Philo, was learned, eager to assimulate his religious tradition into a broader intellectual milieau.
That's a ridiculous comparison. I have just explained to you that Philo lived in the very place the translators lived, spoke the same language, belonged to the same tradition and undoubtedly was related to the original translators. There weren't that many priests in Alexandria. Either he knows the facts or he's in on the conspiracy.
Secret Alias
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Re: Plato and the Pentateuch

Post by Secret Alias »

What bearing does that have upon the original anguage or dating of the Pentateuch? None, I think. If the pentateuch was new, the priests would have conspired to make it seem older as happened with Mormonism. If the pentateuch was old, then the priests really were hereditary keepers of ancient lore.
He was undoubtedly related to the original translators.
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